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[15:46:14] <boob> hi
[15:46:23] <boob> what's about jn now?
[15:47:52] <peda> hi
[15:47:56] <peda> what do you mean?
[15:49:36] <boob> for long time i have come here, so i dont know what progress of jnode, can tell me?
[15:49:47] <boob> for long time i have NOT come here, ...
[15:50:33] <peda> well, slow progress due to missing man-power :)
[15:50:38] <peda> want to help? ;)
[15:51:19] <boob> sry, im afaid of i cant afford enough
[15:51:47] <boob> peda, u r the only member of jnode team?
[15:51:59] <peda> no :)
[15:52:20] <peda> about 6 people
[15:53:12] <boob> good, how about the future of jnode, in ur view?
[15:58:34] <boob> peda, r u busy?
[15:59:16] <peda> not really busy atm
[15:59:17] <peda> :)
[15:59:29] <peda> the future: depends on the man power
[16:00:17] <peda> but what I'd like to see is that we get to a point where we can run some sort of jsp container inside a virtual mashine and make it comparable fast as a linux+tomcat
[16:01:10] <boob> if have enough man power, what a picuture of future?
[16:01:18] <boob> have u test that on a naked machine, the server fun faster?
[16:02:13] <peda> it does not run faster..
[16:02:25] <peda> and I'm not sure tomecat currently would work in JNode at all
[16:02:43] <peda> I'm just saying, this is kind of my "utopia" regarding JNode :)
[16:03:01] <boob> i wish it do
[16:03:50] <peda> and if we had manpower (especially skilled people that are) we could write/port a better jit compiler, make proper profiling, make vmx fully work, make the vm stable,..
[16:04:36] <boob> it is true that many server run as web server, so the os(win/linux) is needless, if it do
[16:05:04] <peda> yup
[16:05:35] <boob> why no enough manpower?
[16:06:51] <peda> no idea.. current members all have jobs, not much sparetime or even kids (== no spare time at all)
[16:07:06] <peda> we're trying to get new contributors.. but it's hard
[16:07:55] <peda> on the one hand you need Java devs but on the other hand they need to know much about JNode and/or lowlevel PC stuff to work on JNode
[16:08:12] <peda> so you have a huge amount to learn before you can usefully contribute
[16:08:30] * tgiphil agrees with that
[16:08:36] <peda> :)
[16:09:13] <peda> Fabien currently has an "arangement" with some french students that do students work in JNode
[16:09:53] <peda> we're trying to "force" such things and help them as good as possible. Perhaps we'll get cool new features and perhaps even new devs for the long term.. we'll see
[16:10:29] <tgiphil> ^ mosa project runs into the same issues.
[16:10:36] <boob> r u a teacher, peda?
[16:10:45] <boob> what's mosa project, tgiphil?
[16:11:07] <tgiphil> jnode is to java as mose as to .NET
[16:11:26] <boob> i see
[16:11:45] <peda> I'm an assistant at the university, I wouldn't it exactly call teacher :) Though I'm doing some teaching stuff
[16:14:48] <tgiphil> what do you "teach"?
[16:16:05] <peda> computer vision related stuff and "teaching programming in Java" for students in the 2-4th semester
[16:18:33] <boob> peda, i have no any knowledge of computer vision, can u give me some stuff of introducing computer vision, and whether or not need study more mathesmatic knowledge?
[16:22:20] <peda> computer vision is a large area but there are some good books out there giving a good introduction (though I used german books ;))
[16:23:16] <peda> but todo good computer vision (especially high accuracy/precision) you need to have a good amout of mathematical knowledge..
[16:23:21] <peda> and it can never be enough
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[16:26:03] <boob> so, whether or not one like me that have no a good amout of math knowledge( ever had, now forgot all) should try to read one or two books of that topic?
[16:29:30] <boob> im moved after i saw a movie in which a indian engineer display his invent, he type keyboard in air, i guess a camera is capture his finger track, then in background a computer vision is work, right?
[16:31:28] <rommanio> hmm there's a place for talking about JNode, isn't it? :)
[16:33:53] <boob> ok, then what progress of jnode, now it can run a hellow word program?
[16:35:17] <rommanio> Yes, it is. it can run even GUI :)
[16:35:34] <boob> then why cant run tomcat?
[16:36:07] <boob> seems that tomcat is pure java
[16:37:01] <rommanio> it is a concept OS.
[16:37:01] <rommanio> Tomcat isn't implemented yet, AFAIK.
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[16:41:06] <peda> I'm not sure if someone tried it yet, so can't say for sure
[16:41:31] <boob> i estimated that tomcat request a filesystem support, process support except java, jnode still cant satisified it?
[16:41:33] <peda> but given other large java apps we still have some rarely used java apis that are not complete or non-functional in JNode
[16:42:07] <peda> e.g. I can give you an example that happened lately:
[16:42:35] <peda> derby didn't run as it called some OS.getFreeHeapSize() to optimize for table loading
[16:42:44] <peda> we had this code from openjdk
[16:43:03] <peda> and the impl looked like: "return nativeGetFreeHeapSize()"
[16:43:08] <peda> which was a native method
[16:45:39] <boob> i hope jnode can run not only class, but exe, even anything, need include a good amount of api, that will is never enough
[16:46:22] <rommanio> no.
[16:46:22] <peda> hmm? not sure I got that right, but for sure we will not be able to run exe files
[16:46:59] <rommanio> it is a absolutelly other OS :)
[16:47:07] <boob> why, jonde can run a virtual x86 machine for a exe file
[16:47:24] <rommanio> Hm...
[16:48:11] <boob> then can make some java-cpu, must faster
[16:49:52] <boob> u know, a java application can compile a exe file into bytecode at first, then run it in a virtual x86 machine by/in java
[16:50:06] <rommanio> ah? do you understand what is Jnode?
[16:50:20] <boob> os in java, right?
[16:50:41] <rommanio> yes.
[16:51:51] <boob> linux have windows virtual machine, so i think jnode can have windows virtual machine, and linux virtual machine
[16:52:47] <boob> or apple vm
[16:53:22] <boob> when jnode is a mature machine, java-cpu must be produced
[16:54:35] <rommanio> no. are you know about Singularity?
[16:54:57] <boob> dont know
[16:55:58] <rommanio> it have the same concept.
[16:56:44] <tgiphil> Mosa Project is the open source version of Singularity.
[16:57:02] <tgiphil> who does the work on device drivers for jnode?
[16:57:58] <rommanio> Pede and, as I know, FabienD
[17:00:44] <peda> well... kind of .. *cough*
[17:00:46] <tgiphil> pede or peda ?
[17:00:46] <peda> :)
[17:00:54] <tgiphil> k
[17:01:15] <peda> and boob, indeed, there's jpc (a pc emulator written in java) which works in jnode
[17:01:24] <peda> so you can install windows/dos in jpc in JNode
[17:01:35] <tgiphil> if you don't mind, I'd like to tap your brain on devices sometime...
[17:01:38] <tgiphil> I use JPC!!!
[17:01:46] <rommanio> it's time for me :)
[17:01:47] <tgiphil> use it for debugging
[17:01:58] <peda> and there is stuff like nestedVM or pearcolator which translate binaries to bytecode.. so that works too, though ... slow :)
[17:02:06] <peda> tgiphil: cool :)
[17:02:19] <peda> tgiphil: and sure
[17:07:26] <boob> i cant ocupy more ur time,just wish u stick to jnode, i like it, though i still have not install it(no time) until now.
[17:08:14] <boob> after some days i will come here again to talk with u all, byebye
[17:09:56] <peda> :)
[17:09:58] <peda> cu

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