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[01:20:33] <xjiro> Sgfried: in general
[01:21:02] <xjiro> the UT3 editor is the absolute best tool for any 3d mapping
[01:21:18] <xjiro> pretty much completely undisputed
[01:21:45] <xjiro> i hope you are prepared for much frustration and wheel reinventing coming from UT3
[01:22:01] <Sgfried> what do you mean?
[01:22:14] <xjiro> UT3 content creation is many years ahead of everything else
[01:22:27] <xjiro> nothing even compares
[01:23:08] <Sgfried> oh ok....is it compatible with jme?....meaning if I create my maps and levels in ut3 editor are they easily used in jme...
[01:23:13] <xjiro> not a chance
[01:23:19] <Sgfried> damn that sucks
[01:23:40] <xjiro> are you familiar with q2/q3/hl
[01:23:49] <xjiro> you can make maps with some bad tools there
[01:23:54] <xjiro> and get them into jme
[01:24:12] <Sgfried> I am not familiar with those....not even sure what you are referring to
[01:25:10] <xjiro> quake and halflife and derivatives of those engines all have similar csg editors
[01:25:24] <xjiro> which you can use with some open source compilers to get a bsp that can be used with jme
[01:25:31] <Sgfried> ahh i see...I have heard of those...but never used/played
[01:25:39] <xjiro> it's frustrating if you're not familiar with it
[01:25:49] <Sgfried> yea :(
[01:26:07] <Sgfried> wish I could just make a map with UT3...its a very nice editor
[01:26:20] <xjiro> i think the preferred route today for engines that do not have an established content pipeline (jme)
[01:26:30] <xjiro> is to just model the whole thing
[01:26:36] <xjiro> import the model
[01:26:49] <xjiro> and parse it for specially labeled groups
[01:26:58] <xjiro> do you follow ?
[01:27:01] <Sgfried> oh...with my 3ds max?....I can create the level there and import?
[01:27:06] <xjiro> sort of
[01:27:13] <xjiro> it's a ghetto workaround for not having a content pipeline
[01:27:25] <xjiro> so like instead of having to place entities
[01:27:34] <xjiro> you would put a little sphere that is invisible
[01:27:37] <xjiro> or something
[01:27:38] <xjiro> a box
[01:27:41] <xjiro> with a special name
[01:27:48] <xjiro> that you would look for on "loading" your map
[01:28:06] <xjiro> there's one game in jme that i saw get pretty complete
[01:28:14] <xjiro> no one knows about it, pretty much all the media for it is gone
[01:28:27] <xjiro> that's what they did with milkshape
[01:29:19] <xjiro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d_KEA8MYLI
[01:29:35] <xjiro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Sat9_yvrU
[01:30:08] <xjiro> gameplay looks a little horrendous, but it's certainly artistically established
[01:30:12] <xjiro> no shortage of models
[01:30:57] <Sgfried> I see.....production sounds like a pain ><....
[01:31:15] <xjiro> i've talked with some people who use 3ds to map commercially
[01:31:35] <Sgfried> if you don't mind a noob question....why is there no content pipeline for jme....and how difficult would that be to engineer
[01:31:36] <xjiro> some people argue it's better, and they prefer it
[01:32:06] <xjiro> i tihnk jME is just a starting point of an engine
[01:32:10] <xjiro> it's not like UT3
[01:32:16] <xjiro> they aren't packaging you a game engine
[01:32:31] <xjiro> they're giving you a general renderer, input, basic scene management
[01:32:47] <Sgfried> yea true....really I would just need to create my own ngine from scratch
[01:33:03] <xjiro> most projects i see floating around with lwjgl and jME a content pipeline is unnecesarry
[01:33:03] <Sgfried> which is also a pain :P
[01:33:13] <xjiro> well if you think about it
[01:33:24] <xjiro> the editor monkeyworld3d or something
[01:33:28] <xjiro> i tried it a long time ago
[01:33:51] <xjiro> it's definitely in the better half of content creation tools in the opensource world
[01:34:04] <Sgfried> it was really laggy and slow when I tried it
[01:34:07] <xjiro> why dont you use that as a starting point
[01:34:18] <xjiro> oh
[01:34:22] <xjiro> i have it confused with irredit
[01:34:40] <Sgfried> what is irredit?
[01:34:57] <xjiro> hm ironically
[01:35:01] <xjiro> http://www.ambiera.com/irredit/
[01:35:04] <xjiro> you should give that a try
[01:35:13] <xjiro> it's for a different engine, but the end product is an xml file
[01:35:18] <xjiro> all you would have to do is parse it with jME
[01:35:25] <xjiro> and have it place your meshes, particles, etc
[01:35:29] <xjiro> lights
[01:35:36] <xjiro> it's solid
[01:35:44] <Sgfried> yea that sounds good
[01:36:01] <xjiro> i think you can categorize editors in two groups
[01:36:05] <xjiro> scenegraph and csg
[01:36:11] <xjiro> UT3 is a combination
[01:36:17] <xjiro> this is pure scenegraph
[01:36:41] <Sgfried> are you a member on the jme forums?....I ask because I would like to drop you a line sometime and see if you can help if I get stuck :P
[01:36:44] <xjiro> there is a slight question of what you're doing
[01:36:54] <xjiro> if you're doing geometrically complex things that must clip accurately
[01:37:14] <xjiro> and you can sacrifice graphics
[01:37:32] <xjiro> you're better off with qeradiant and a bsp compiler
[01:37:47] <xjiro> gtkradiant*
[01:37:51] <xjiro> im not
[01:37:52] <Sgfried> at the moment I just want to create terrain maps/levels so I can make an RPG
[01:38:05] <xjiro> i left jme for years, this is my first day back
[01:38:07] <xjiro> lol
[01:38:12] <Sgfried> hahah
[01:38:26] <xjiro> jme used to be the absolute best
[01:38:48] <xjiro> there's still nothing else around with a binding manager out of the box
[01:39:25] <xjiro> also gamestate managers
[01:39:28] <Sgfried> yea I don't know of anything else out there for java that seems this nice
[01:39:43] <xjiro> i'm copmaring it to ogre and irrlicht
[01:39:48] <Sgfried> but it feels a bit lacking of crucial elements at times
[01:40:00] <Sgfried> but that might just be noobishness on my part
[01:40:12] <xjiro> jme gives you the absolute most out of the box
[01:40:23] <xjiro> if i were on a deadline
[01:40:26] <xjiro> and i had to have a game made right away
[01:40:29] <xjiro> it's jme hands down
[01:40:36] <xjiro> (between open source engines)
[01:40:55] <xjiro> this engine gives you the most out of the box, so almost all you program is game-specific
[01:41:14] <xjiro> unlike the C++ engines where you have to write engine framework to get basic scene management in
[01:41:28] <xjiro> or context switches between input schemes
[01:41:46] <xjiro> (like a main menu vs gameplay)
[01:42:24] <Sgfried> true
[01:42:42] <xjiro> plus i really appreciate
[01:42:42] <xjiro> the java singleton
[01:43:57] <Sgfried> yea I like java over C++ in general which is the main reason I want to do my game in java (and thus with jme).....just has been hard getting off the ground because I always like to start my stuff being able to test it...and to test I need an environment :P
[01:44:55] <xjiro> yeah jme fucked up lately
[01:45:05] <Sgfried> why do you say that?
[01:45:06] <xjiro> i can't find binaries or anything ready to run in the distributions
[01:45:18] <Sgfried> oh really?
[01:45:23] <xjiro> i had to go through a lot of trouble to compile the jmetest stuff
[01:45:31] <xjiro> they used to be good about this
[01:45:35] <Sgfried> what IDE do you use?
[01:45:46] <xjiro> eclipse ?
[01:45:59] <Sgfried> I just today recreated my project in eclipse and everything works correctly
[01:46:11] <xjiro> jme doesn't compile out of the box
[01:46:23] <Sgfried> did you download it from the SVN?
[01:46:23] <xjiro> i had to do something stupid to fix some protection errors
[01:46:27] <xjiro> no
[01:47:06] <Sgfried> ahh....see I did and it compiles and runs everything right away....well...after you tell eclipse where to find the jars and such
[01:47:10] <xjiro> i'm not a jme dev so i don't want to work with unstable versions in exchanged for undocumented features that i can't see samples of
[01:47:45] <xjiro> whatever
[01:47:51] <Sgfried> yea I can see the problem there...I never got anything other than the SVN copy to work
[01:47:54] <xjiro> i'm just upset that it got harder to use
[01:48:20] <xjiro> it'll just shrink the jme community, but no one seems concerned
[01:48:24] <Sgfried> yea...I just started using it a couple months ago so I do not know how easy it was before
[01:48:24] <xjiro> of all the communities i know of
[01:48:32] <xjiro> in jme, people get the furthest with the least help
[01:48:49] <Sgfried> yea....I deffinately need lots of help :P
[01:50:01] <mythos> o.O ... i see life here ...
[01:50:28] <mythos> total uncommon
[01:51:00] <Sgfried> hahaha
[01:51:46] <mythos> yeah, in the most cases, people join, ask a question and go two minutes later
[01:52:12] <xjiro> anyway im on aim
[01:52:12] <Sgfried> hahah...I asked a question and hung around while I posted the same question on the forum :P
[01:52:13] <mythos> serios, nobody answers that fast
[01:52:20] <xjiro> <-
[01:52:39] <Sgfried> but hey...I gotta run...dinner is ready
[01:53:00] <mythos> have a pleasure meal
[01:53:25] <Sgfried> thanks for the help xjiro and I am a member on the forum.....my name is the same there as it is here :P
[01:53:31] <Sgfried> thank you mythos
[01:53:41] <mythos> for what o.O ?
[01:54:30] <xjiro> for a pleasure meal
[01:54:32] <xjiro> wish
[01:54:39] <mythos> ah ok ^^
[01:54:55] <xjiro> do you know jme well, mythos
[01:55:45] <mythos> no, i'm only here, because i developed a java-mplayer binding and got it working with jme as well
[01:55:52] <xjiro> ah
[01:55:59] <xjiro> any opinion on sgs-darkstar
[01:56:24] <mythos> so the only thing, i can do, is a quad with texture and update this texture as fast as jme can
[01:56:46] <mythos> sorry, i don't know what sgs-darkstar is
[01:57:08] <xjiro> sun had this opensource project called sgs-darkstar
[01:57:19] <xjiro> it was a persistent-state multiplayer server and client
[01:57:33] <xjiro> i thought it was going to be the end-all for this kind of thing
[01:57:55] <xjiro> it was basically a mmo server, abstracted enough to be applied to anything
[01:59:29] <mythos> so, and you wanted to ask here for the opinions about this project?
[02:00:04] <xjiro> i was just asking you, because you said you made a java-mplayer binding
[02:00:17] <xjiro> i figured you would have an opinion on similar existing projects
[02:00:23] <mythos> mplayer is a movie-player ;0)
[02:00:26] <xjiro> oh.
[02:00:33] <xjiro> i read that as multi
[02:00:49] <mythos> yeah yeah, i know now how you read it ^^
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[05:42:19] <Sgfried> So does anyone know how this was created...or how it can be duplicated?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPvoLn6LS8&NR=1
[05:42:57] <Sgfried> It looks to be a very nice editor and I would love to use it and or examine the source code for it
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[06:17:20] <Sgfried> Ok I am heading to bed....if anyone knows how to access a copy of or how to begin to engineer an editor like that shown here : http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=FredBjME#p/a/u/0/YDPvoLn6LS8  Please let me know...I gotta get to sleep but will keep myself logged in here
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[10:27:43] <elFer> Hello
[10:27:48] <elFer> Someone?
[10:28:40] * EricJ coughs
[10:30:31] <elFer> I don't know the existence of this project...
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[10:42:24] <xjiro1> my milkshape files reference their own textures
[10:42:33] <xjiro1> and they use more than one texture per mesh
[10:42:55] <xjiro1> how do i load the ms3d models allowing them to use their own multiple, referenced textures
[10:42:57] <xjiro1> ?
[10:43:15] <xjiro1> http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/wiki/doku.php/some_customized_methods_for_model_loading only allows for a single texture
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[13:58:09] <xjiro1> i suppose i fixed it
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[16:04:54] <Sgfried> ok...so does anyone here know how to implement a canvas to put the jme scenegraph on?...I tried using the implementation from the control editor program that is in one of the test packages with JME but it does not create a blank canvas with nothing in it
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[17:13:59] <Sgfried> oooo....another question.....anyone know how to create a flat terrain?
[17:17:06] <Sgfried> I know that a quad is completely flat...but 1 I do not know how to lay it down horizontally...and 2.  Have no idea how to use it in place of a terrain page or block etc....I would like to start with a flat terrain that I can then manipulate later....if it's not possible I suppose I can start with a bumpy terrain...and if I ever get a working editor make a flat terrain and then edit the code to use the flat terrain as my starting terr
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