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[00:00:23] <yshavit> IvoryZion: well, but "null" means "default behavior." So for whatever reason, they wanted to give you this hook, but make it optional.
[00:00:46] <yshavit> I don't know if this hook in particular is a useful one :) but that idea is okay in theory.
[00:01:13] <IvoryZion> Really, what theory?
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[00:01:52] <yshavit> the "this is an optional thing that you may or may not want to override, and it's not important enough for us to force you to do so" theory
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[00:02:25] <IvoryZion> yshavit:  Like a "you should override this, but we really don't care" theory?
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[00:03:15] <QbY> this is probably an IDE question but I'm not getting an answer; i'm writing an app that requires the opening of a TCP socket.  how can i get my ide to let me write as me, but run it as root for debugging
[00:03:17] <yshavit> there's a difference between "you should" and "you must." If the default behavior is one that's fine 90% of the time, why force everyone who wants to extend JComponent to declare a method that does the same thing (returning null)
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[00:04:03] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: You don't.
[00:04:12] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: Open a non-privileged port.
[00:04:30] <QbY> pr3d4k4t: .. and then just change it for deployment?
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[00:05:10] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: Then use something sensible for deployment like a load balancer or a proxy.  Exposing apps through privileged ports is a no-no.
[00:05:26] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: Which port is it?
[00:05:28] <QbY> hrm.. i'm building a fake pop3  server
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[00:05:34] <thefalling> how do i make it to where if a user types 1 on the keyboard, it presses a button
[00:06:25] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: I see.  Try debugging it on port 11000 or whatever.
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[00:06:49] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: Now to run that on 110 for real, you have a few options.
[00:06:50] <QbY> yeah,  i just  changed it to 10254
[00:06:52] <QbY> 1024
[00:07:14] <IvoryZion> yshavit: I see your point.  I would submit that a method that returns null should be wholly absent from the interface.  If it does nothing, then it probably shouldn't be included and overriders can implement their own.
[00:09:05] <yshavit> IvoryZion: But that would make it more difficult for the look-and-feel to use that method. It would have to use reflection to first find out if the method exists. For whatever reason, the Swing people thought this is important enough to declare the behavior, but that the default behavior of "do whatever you want" is good enough, and safe enough, to be the default implementation.
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[00:09:56] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: The safest thing to do once you deploy for real is to run this setuid.  Google for that and you'll get lots of infos.  You'll need to write a shell program that starts Java with the appropriate permissions for accessing resources.
[00:10:29] <QbY> could always just use iptables i guess too
[00:10:45] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: Heh - and that's supposed to be easier for him?
[00:10:46] <yshavit> IvoryZion: it's a judgment call to put that method in that kind of a gray area, I'll grant that. In another universe, that might be an interface method. :)
[00:10:57] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: It'll certainly teach him a lot more about how to configure his system's network :)
[00:11:03] <QbY> i'm essentally building a server that our subscribers will connect to -- since we've moved -- when they connect it sends a single "email" advising them on what they need to do
[00:12:08] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: Why not just send them an email? ;;)
[00:12:18] <QbY> old mail servers are gone; and we did
[00:12:21] <QbY> tons of emails
[00:12:23] <QbY> and they ignored htem
[00:12:24] <QbY> :)
[00:12:41] <pr3d4k4t> QbY: And what makes you think that they'll pay attention to this?
[00:12:47] <c_axis> does anyone else not like the way ui event listening works in java?
[00:12:58] <c_axis> coming from obj-c where i can have different methods called directly for different events
[00:13:16] <pr3d4k4t> c_axis: Yeah, coming from Objective-C/Cocoa Java's event handlers suck.
[00:13:42] <pr3d4k4t> c_axis: Coming from Windows/KDE/Gnome, they look like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
[00:13:54] <yshavit> IvoryZion: anyway, it's nice to chat about. Some people don't have that kind of curiosity, they just say "that's how it is!" and get angry at the question "why"
[00:14:03] <pr3d4k4t> c_axis: If you are willing to overlook their lack of dynamism they're quite nice.
[00:15:19] <pr3d4k4t> c_axis: The real missing feature is the lack of delegates.  Otherwise you've got everything you need.  Think of the time when you hard-coded handlers to components in IterfaceBuilder; that's more or less how Java works.
[00:16:17] <IvoryZion> yshavit: I agree, the "why" of it, is typically very important.  At least in my opinion.  I can't say that I would never design software that way, but I can say, in 15 years I've never seen it clear to use a method that does nothing.  My experience doesn't preclude the need may exist.
[00:16:28] <IvoryZion> Thanks for your input.  I appreciate it.
[00:17:30] <yshavit> IvoryZion: My first reaction was actually that it was a mistake from an earlier rev, but javadoc says it's new in 1.5
[00:17:46] <yshavit> Maybe it's something that third-party vendors (JIDE etc) specifically requested?
[00:17:49] <c_axis> pr3d4k4t: yes, delegation would be lovely ; ). anyway, thanks
[00:19:54] <pr3d4k4t> c_axis: You're welcome.
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[00:31:05] <yshavit> IvoryZion: I was thinking about it as I was taking the trash out just now, and I agree with you. If it's that unimportant for most classes (I couldn't find a single class on google that overrides it), just declare it as a separate interface. Instanceof isn't so hard.
[00:31:46] <_W_> I don't see the need for even instanceof
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[00:32:11] <_W_> but then, spring would probably look quite different if I got to design it ^^
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[00:32:15] <_W_> *swing
[00:32:59] * pr3d4k4t shakes his head.
[00:33:16] * pr3d4k4t leaves the channel before he gets the Java willies.
[00:33:22] <yshavit> _W_: if more than a couple classes would use it, but they don't have a common ancestor that also uses it, why not interface?
[00:33:44] <SEcki> instanceof is handy sometimes
[00:33:45] <yshavit> erm, s/interface/interface and instanceof/
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[00:34:45] <_W_> I don't think implementing an interface should have a functional effect
[00:35:09] <ojacobson> Indeed. Java's been moving away from magical tag interfaces since 1.5 (if not before that).
[00:35:13] <_W_> it muddies the waters, makes cause and effect harder to trace and keep track of
[00:35:32] <ojacobson> Annotations are okay, if only because they *don't* participate in the type system (extending an annotated class doesn't annotate your class, for example)
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[00:35:46] <ojacobson> Overuse of magic annotations can be just as bad, but it takes more
[00:35:50] <yshavit> ojacobson: this is an interface that would actually provide a method
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[00:36:09] <ojacobson> Further, the need to "recover" type information (by using instanceof/casting) is a fairly major design smell
[00:36:13] <pr3d4k4t> ojacobson: To me that's more complexity on top of the language that it doesn't need.
[00:36:28] <ojacobson> If you need to use an object as a specific type, you shouldn't lose track of the fact that it's that type in the first place, and you shouldn't force your clients to do it for you, either
[00:36:36] <pr3d4k4t> ojacobson: And if Java didn't have a Pascal-like typing system you wouldn't need instanceof ;)
[00:36:40] <_W_> yshavit, I am fond of composition; if you want to send the library a component that provides a functionality, you should do so by sending an instance to a method
[00:36:41] <ojacobson> heh
[00:36:46] <ojacobson> nominative interfaces wbni
[00:36:53] <_W_> pr3d4k4t, I don't need instanceof
[00:37:42] <_W_> (and if I ever get around to making my own language for the JVM, it won't have such features)
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[00:38:25] <yshavit> _W_: difference in style, I guess. That seems like it'd be messier to me, but to be fair I haven't done it much.
[00:39:20] <IvoryZion> This is my most recent, unsolved, Swing dilemma.  Right-clicking a JList brings up a JPopupMenu.  Selecting an option from the menu fires the associated actionPerformed() method.  In actionPerformed() I need to know the original JList item that was right-clicked on.
[00:40:02] <IvoryZion> The popup menu covers multiple list items when show.
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[00:40:40] <yshavit> IvoryZion: I forget, at the time that actionPerformed is called, is the JPopupMenu still open?
[00:40:45] <IvoryZion> Therefore getting the mouse location can of a clicked menu item may or may not return the JList item that was right-clicked.
[00:40:56] <IvoryZion> yshavit: good question.  No
[00:41:54] <Rainier> Add a mouse listener to the JList, catch which item was right clicked before the popup is shown (hopefully)
[00:42:06] <yshavit> IvoryZion: have you considered convincing your clients that CLI is the way to go? I'm not saying it'll be easier... but it'll be easier than dealing with the mess that is Swing. ;-)
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[00:42:59] <ojacobson> Does right-clicking a list somewhere that isn't a selected item change the selection?
[00:43:07] <IvoryZion> yshavit:  I wish I could, but my client is my professor who's teaching a GUI programming class.  Hard sell maybe... :-)
[00:43:14] <ojacobson> If so, the right thing to do is to ask the list's selection model what was selected and operate on that/those
[00:43:28] <Rainier> IvoryZion, to determine whether or not the mouse click on the JList is a popup-able can be done via mouseEvent.isPopupTrigger();
[00:43:31] <yshavit> Real programmers don't use GUIs!
[00:43:41] <IvoryZion> ojacobson: Right click does fire a selection.
[00:43:45] <IvoryZion> *not
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[00:44:05] <SEcki> yshavit: real programmers use ed!
[00:44:12] <Rainier> IvoryZion, right, that's why you use the isPopupTrigger() plus your own mouse listener on the JList to determine which item was right clicked, store it, then use that value later.
[00:45:03] <yshavit> SEcki: real programmers use the butterfly! Or possibly the butterfly shortcut in emacs.
[00:45:04] <Rainier> If that makes sense to you.
[00:45:24] <Rainier> ugh, can we just focus on helping IvoryZion and not unoriginal XKCD references?
[00:45:33] <Rainier> Good comedy is spontaneous
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[00:45:57] * Rainier returns to his C program :-/
[00:46:11] <SEcki> yshavit: he, where is that xkcd about real programemrs ...
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[00:47:31] <IvoryZion> Rainier: So my ActionListener on JMenuItem needs a reference to the MouseListener on the JList.  The MouseListener will save the Point of the most recent right-click.  The actionPerformed() method will query the MouseListener for this Point.
[00:47:37] <IvoryZion> Is that correct?
[00:48:00] <yshavit> SEcki: http://xkcd.com/378/
[00:48:02] <Rainier> uh ... yeah, I think so.
[00:48:34] <yshavit> Rainier: sorry, I'll stop now.
[00:48:36] <Rainier> sorry, a bit distracted, but yeah, store the point (or better yet, the index calculated frrom that point!) somewhere accessible by both listeners.
[00:49:04] <IvoryZion> Rainier:  I think I can make that work.  Seems like quite a bit of scaffolding for something that could be much easier.
[00:49:22] <Rainier> the isPopupTrigger thing I mentioned isn't exactly necessarily, but it makes sure the points you store are only for events triggering the popup
[00:49:50] <SEcki> ~yshavit++
[00:49:50] <javabot> yshavit has a karma level of 2, SEcki
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[00:51:15] <IvoryZion> The more I work with JLists, the more I feel they should have the option to be created as containers that maintain their contents rather than just paint them.  This would be heavier yes, but would simplify the programming model for people willing to trade size for ease.
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[00:52:01] <Rainier> I don't quite get how that would be better ...
[00:52:07] <FauxFaux> IvoryZion: I guarntee you someone will have wrapped that up for you.
[00:52:08] <IvoryZion> Then event listeners on the JLists could receive a reference to the element in question rather than juggle mouse coordinates and hoping for the best.
[00:52:20] <Rainier> That doesn't scale
[00:52:28] <Rainier> That's why they did JList and JTable the way they did
[00:52:40] <Rainier> It also destroys the easy separation between the view and the model.
[00:52:52] <IvoryZion> Rainier:  It should be an option in the ctor.
[00:52:57] <IvoryZion> Not necessarily.
[00:53:02] <FauxFaux> Or you could wrap it.
[00:53:06] <yshavit> IvoryZion: now that I think about it... this might be overly convoluted, but what if right-clicking the JList brought up the popup via an anonymous class (a Runnable or such), which the right-click action could initialize to store the JList?
[00:53:13] <Rainier> So now something that just you want should be an option for everyone?
[00:53:43] <Rainier> They created JLists and JTables to cover a pretty good base that everyone would be able to use.
[00:54:51] <IvoryZion> Rainier: I just think providing the option makes the client programming model more intuitive.
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[00:55:24] <Rainier> I don't think so ... I'd say that I understand how to get what I want very well because I also understand the fundamentals of how JList and JTable work.
[00:55:48] <Rainier> JList shouldn't behavior shouldn't be changed just because some people don't take time to get it.
[00:55:53] <yshavit> IvoryZion, Rainier: Then again, nothing precludes someone from writing such a self-managing component that uses JList...
[00:56:50] <Rainier> I really don't get how adding panels to another panel in a sequential grid is easier than a JList for this purpose. If I wanted that, I'd use a GridLayout parent panel and go from there.
[00:57:02] <Rainier> If all items were not the same height, then I'd try wrangling with SpringLayout or GroupLayout.
[00:57:55] <Rainier> (though in reality, I've found it pretty not-so-nice to get either to do a single column list of non-same-height panels that stretch from west to east ... maybe I should write another layout manager for that)
[00:58:23] <Rainier> (writing layout managers is relatively easy and, different from conventional thoughts, actually fun)
[00:58:40] <Rainier> StackLayout :)
[00:58:44] <Rainier> anyway ...
[00:58:44] <IvoryZion> Rainier: Having a Component maintained with a reference to it's model element doesn't break MVC.  I'm certainly not an MVC expert, but I don't see any imposed difficulty.
[00:59:12] <Rainier> You're managing it twice essentially though.
[00:59:34] <IvoryZion> Yes, but by choice because you, as the programmer, are given the option.
[00:59:48] <Rainier> You might as well replace those stacked components with an instance of a special class that directly contains the data it's worried about and how to paint it.
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[01:00:35] <Rainier> Besides the fact that it would use more memory, the model then has to either know which component is associated with what, or when the List is told to update, the List then has to tell that component, there's now 3 hops.
[01:00:58] <IvoryZion> Rainier: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  Although I understand your perspective.
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[01:01:41] <Rainier> Not to be "mean" but I'm just saying this from (what I consider to be) a view of a person who knows how certain components in Swing work, and thus work with them, not against them.
[01:03:03] <Rainier> hmm, stacklayout doesn't seem like it'd be all that hard.
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[01:03:28] <Rainier> panel.add(panel, StackLayout.CENTER & StackLayout.FILL_HORIZONTAL);
[01:03:37] <shingoki> JList and JTable aren't awful, but they really aren't designed THAT well
[01:03:43] <shingoki> there are clear flaws with big parts of them
[01:03:48] <Rainier> Like what?
[01:04:09] <shingoki> Well, ListModel should be very similar to TableModel, but isn't
[01:04:17] <Rainier> I used to think they were quite awful (well, JTable anyway), but I've gotten much better at Swing and find them not to be all that terrible.
[01:04:39] <shingoki> For example as far as I can find, there is no neat way to fire an event that a list has changed completely
[01:04:45] <Rainier> shingoki, they serve different purposes, but I do find it a bit odd that the fire+ methods are public for DefaultTableModel but not DefaultListModel.
[01:05:00] <shingoki> They're not terrible, especially compared to every other table/list implementation I've ever seen
[01:05:08] <shingoki> they could just do with a version 2 ;)
[01:05:28] <Rainier> I don't think it would be that hard to add "list changed" fire method, though, if you wanted.
[01:05:30] <shingoki> Well, DefaultTableModel isn't really much use anyway, the Abstract stuff is all you need
[01:05:43] <shingoki> It's more a problem with the actual events
[01:05:50] <Rainier> DefaultTableModel is nice if you don't want to implement one yourself and need add/remove
[01:06:25] <shingoki> I guess, but I don't really like it, and implementing a TableModel is about the easiest bit of tables :)
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[01:08:31] <shingoki> ListDataEvent only has "changed", "added" and "removed" types, which technically is enough, but it's needlessly messy to tell a listener that you have completely new contents
[01:09:13] <Rainier> then extend DefaultListModel, and add a method that tells it all the rows up to the previous amount changed and the rest are added.
[01:09:21] <shingoki> the "neatest" way I could find was to make the model temporarily appear to be empty, and fire a "removed" event for all rows, then appear to be full again and fire an "added" method for all rows
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[01:09:37] <shingoki> yeah I guess you can chose that pair of events as well, instead of a remove then add
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[01:09:44] <Rainier> which requires duplicate repaints :)
[01:09:49] <shingoki> but either way you end up with two events and possibly two updates
[01:09:50] <shingoki> yup
[01:09:59] <nfrs> is there a variant of File.createTempFile() to create a temporary directory?
[01:10:00] <shingoki> either one gives two repaints
[01:10:17] <shingoki> that's my point - there is no equivalent of the TableModel "everything has changed" event
[01:10:20] <Rainier> no, the "current rows need updating, then add the rest" doesn't
[01:10:31] <Rainier> that does one repaint per row
[01:10:35] <shingoki> yes it does, there is no event for "some changed and some added", you need two events
[01:10:47] <yshavit> I gotta head out, good night guys!
[01:10:52] <Rainier> right, but that's still only one repaint per row
[01:11:02] <Rainier> removing them all then readding them results in possibly two repaints
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[01:11:37] <shingoki> yes that's true. But of course it requires me to pointlessly work out whether I am bigger or smaller, then send either an added or removed to make the size change and a "changed" for the rest
[01:11:57] <IvoryZion> hmmm.... Even though JPopupMenu is no longer showing once my actionPerformed() method fires, it does have the properties desiredLocationX and Y which appear to contain the remnants of it's upper left corner.  Anyone know how to acquire these?
[01:11:59] <shingoki> if a single event for that made sense for table, which it definitely did, why did they not bother for lists?
[01:12:05] <Rainier> meh, them having a method for it would just mean they'd be doing that work for you anyway ... but whatever.
[01:12:10] <shingoki> not really
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[01:12:31] <shingoki> since a table can be told to just forget any internal state etc. and start again, which is exactly what you want to happen
[01:12:41] <Rainier> Well, they could repaint the whole thing entirely, true, but for whatever reason they didn't quite do it, besides the fact that that wouldn't be waht you wanted anyway.
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[01:13:05] <Rainier> because I've found when you tell a JTable that everything has changed, it seems to forget all the cell renderers you told it to use for columns.
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[01:13:20] <shingoki> plus it doesn't risk getting out of sync - I think that's why I went for the complete erase/replace approach, since I don't really want to trust every JList to always track everything, and I don't really see why whoever designed it wanted to have to track state in the model and also the view.
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[01:13:53] <shingoki> Rainier: It probably depends which event you give it - you need to make sure you send the one for "number of rows and row contents changed, but columns haven't"
[01:14:08] <shingoki> you might have given it the one where columns change as well, so columns would be rebuilt and renderers lost
[01:14:26] <Rainier> it doesn't matter, if you tell it rows 0 to end updated, it repaints them. if you tell it "table data changed" it forgets *everything*
[01:14:49] <Rainier> Anyway, I've figured out most of this stuff because I do stuff like this: http://www.asmcbain.net/projects/quickview/quickview.png
[01:14:56] <shingoki> no, there are at least 3 options. Some set of rows changed, Number of rows changed, rows and columns changed.
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[01:15:32] <shingoki> Well, I've also figured out at least that last one from doing jpropeller.googlecode.com ;)
[01:15:39] <Nickwiz> free UML tools for windows. Dia best?
[01:16:14] <Rainier> I'm talking about TableModel.fireTableDataChanged(), I think or fireTableStructureChanged(), unless I'm not recalling it correctly, I believe they both forgot cell renderers.
[01:16:34] <shingoki> fireTableStructureChanged is equivalent to setModel and will lose your columns. fireTableDataChanged specifically does NOT lose the columns. I don't think it should lose the renderers, but it might do ;)
[01:16:52] <shingoki> it certainly doesn't lose for example column width, etc. so it would be odd if it lost renderers, not sure though
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[01:17:14] <Rainier> that's what I mean, I think it loses the renderers, but I don't have anything handy with which to check, nor do I really want to spend time digging something up,
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[01:17:41] <shingoki> no that's fine, but it is still useful to have the extra options in table model that are missing in list model
[01:18:17] <Rainier> I think I already agreed to that, just for completeness, even if I wouldn't use them :P
[01:18:41] * Rainier should add his TreeTable code to his Swing Addendum project, rather than keep it separate.
[01:19:12] <shingoki> ah right, sorry to go on, I just remember that list thing as a face-palm moment when I realised what I had to do ;)
[01:19:23] <shingoki> I don't actually ever use JList myself, I always use a JTable with one column, since frankly that gives you the same thing with less duplication, but I needed a ListModel to use combo boxes
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[01:19:44] <Rainier> You can use ComboBoxes with a JTable
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[01:19:58] * Rainier finds it neat that his TreeTable *doesn't* use JTree :)
[01:19:59] <shingoki> Ah can you? I must have missed that ;)
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[01:20:28] <Rainier> Well, it's not different than a JList in tha trespect, just make a renderer that handles that.
[01:20:58] <shingoki> Ah hang on do you mean displaying a combobox in a table, or using a tablemodel for the contents of a combobox?
[01:21:20] <Rainier> oh. if you mean the former, then yes. the latter, no.
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[01:21:43] <shingoki> ah well :(
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[01:22:07] <Rainier> You could write an adapter, but you probably don't want to do that, given the discussion we've just been through :P
[01:22:10] <shingoki> it was the latter - I wanted nice combo boxes with a custom model, but the model has to be a listmodel, more or less. It's the only place where you actually have to use a listmodel
[01:22:13] <shingoki> yup
[01:22:13] <Rainier> s/given/knowing/
[01:22:32] <shingoki> the listmodels and tablemodels I use are all adapters from a more sane model anyway
[01:22:53] <allquixotic> Hi, I am running Sun JDK 1.6.0_18 on Ubuntu 9.10. I have a Swing JComboBox with an ItemListener. I set a breakpoint on the ItemListener's itemStateChanged method. Then I tried changing the selected value using the drop down. As a result, my entire X11 input system is locked up, and I have to drop to a TTY to kill Java to regain keyboard/mouse control.
[01:23:02] <Rainier> I don't see what's so insane about them, I use them directly ...
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[01:23:18] <IvoryZion> Rainier:  I'm attempting to implement your idea on a JList.  I'm running into a bit trouble.  If I set JList.setComponentPopupMenu( my JPopupMenu ), any MouseListeners are not called.
[01:23:33] <shingoki> I should clarify I don't really dislike jtable/jlist though, I just think they could be better, which is not surprising given they are pretty old now. For reference, I looked at SWT, wxWidget and GTK tables/lists and none of them are particularly better
[01:23:48] <Rainier> IvoryZion, erm ... that shouldn't happen.
[01:24:14] <IvoryZion> Rainer: I've tried setComponentPopupMenu() before and after adding additional listeners, with the same result.
[01:24:18] <Rainier> IvoryZion, okay, in that case, you'll have to not do setComponentPopupMenu and have your mouse listener show the popup after it's gotten the information it requires.
[01:24:22] <shingoki> Rainier: They're not terrible, just not that great. For example, a Collections List is a much nicer "list" than a ListModel, so I more or less use a List for my model, then an adaptor to a ListModel or TableModel
[01:24:25] <IvoryZion> If I don't call setComponentPopupMenu(), the listeners are called.
[01:24:50] <Rainier> shingoki, I believe they were created before List
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[01:25:13] <Rainier> and it attempts to be closer to JTable (though not the same as), so making it a List would make it quite different from TableModel.
[01:25:18] <shingoki> Rainier: Yup that's what I mean - the swing models aren't bad at all, for the time, but it's clear now that there are better ways to do the same thing
[01:25:56] <shingoki> Rainier: Yes my model is only for tables that actually display a "list of rows", which covers a lot of table use but obviously not all
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[01:26:29] <Rainier> hmm, I'm not sure what a Table would do if not for listing rows with items in them ... ;)
[01:26:38] <shingoki> well yeah, so it covers most options ;)
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[01:27:03] <shingoki> just a List, then a RowView that will convert an element of that list into a set of columns
[01:27:27] <shingoki> it's just a little easier to work with than a TableModel, because you don't need to reimplement the row handling every time, just the column handling
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[01:30:41] <Rainier> hm, if I did put the TreeTable junk into Swing Addendum, I'd have to clean it up and move my dependence on DefaultTableModel on up to TableModel so I don't have methods that still update/work with internal DefaultTableModel data (I only overwrote / implemented what I used/needed)
[01:31:06] <Rainier> Which results in some wacky usage of stuff like addRow(*)
[01:31:40] <Rainier> great ... now I've got 3 extra things on my todo list I didn't expect.
[01:32:06] <shingoki> yay
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[01:47:15] <IvoryZion> I wonder if anyone else has seen this.  I'm using NetBeans 6.8 and have the following line of code in a mouseClicked() method ---> JpopupMenu_menu.show( Jlist, e.getX(), e.getY() );
[01:47:37] <IvoryZion> If I set a breakpoint on that line, then step.  My entire Linux machine locks.
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[01:48:14] <IvoryZion> I have to reboot.
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[01:51:50] <IvoryZion> Sorry if anyone responded and I missed it.
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[01:51:55] <IvoryZion> Could you repost?
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[01:52:53] <mooglenorph> Hi. I'm having .jar file problems: a jar that works on my home system with a blank classpath gives a NoClassDefFoundError on the system I'm trying to deploy to
[01:53:46] <mooglenorph> http://pastie.org/868526 is the MANIFEST.MF
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[01:54:28] <mooglenorph> I've verified that all those files are actually in the jar,
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[01:55:27] <mooglenorph> And don't know what to try after that.
[01:56:41] <IvoryZion> mooglenorph: what are the OS's of the systems you're using?
[01:56:56] <mooglenorph> IvoryZion: linux and linux, one is debian, the other is a ROCKS cluster
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[01:57:27] <mooglenorph> IvoryZion: the working one (my desktop) is debian. I have sun java 5 installed. I've even tried making the jar on the cluster, no dice, I get the same error.
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[02:01:46] <mooglenorph> Okay, curiosier and curiosier: it works if I make the jar on the cluster, but not if I move the jar out of the directory it was made in.
[02:01:58] <IvoryZion> mooglenorph: Sometimes the current directory doesn't end up in the class path on some systems.
[02:02:46] <mooglenorph> http://pastie.org/868526
[02:03:07] <mooglenorph> I updated my paste with relevent info, am I doing anything obviously wrong there that would cause the behavior I listed?
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[02:03:26] <mooglenorph> Ideally I'd like to be able to make the jar on my home computer, copy it over the the cluster, and go.
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[02:05:25] <mooglenorph> I may be totally misunderstanding this: does it look for support-jars INSIDE the jar I'm making, or in the directory that the jar is in in the filesystem upon invocation?
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[02:06:24] <Nickwiz> free UML tools for windows. Dia best?
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[02:10:08] <UNIX107> what is necessary tools for compiling an classe on tomcat server ? thnks
[02:10:42] <impl> well
[02:10:46] <impl> first you need a Java compiler
[02:10:50] <impl> and then you need Tomcat
[02:10:55] <impl> and yeah that's pretty much it.
[02:11:07] <FauxFaux> And a clue, don't forget that.
[02:11:32] <impl> mm, yeah, that always slips my mind for some reason :(
[02:11:42] * impl pokes himself in the eye with a fork
[02:11:45] <hiredman> well, if you have a jvm you can use a java compiler written in java
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[02:12:18] <impl> and if you write a little JSP script to upload the Java file and compile it for you
[02:12:21] <impl> all you need is Tomcat!
[02:13:13] <UNIX107> impl tomcat is installed !
[02:13:25] <impl> go you! *high five*
[02:13:26] <UNIX107> and run without problem
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[02:13:57] <UNIX107> i have an small application run in local without prob but when i upload it to th server
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[02:14:09] <UNIX107> i have probleme with compilation of classes
[02:14:37] <UNIX107> if some one interessted can see all page error in pastbin
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[02:14:47] <seanthegeek> I know a little C++, Python, and VB.NET. But, I have never worked with java, Where would be a good place for me to start?
[02:15:37] <UNIX107> in short thes is th pb : org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP:
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[02:15:59] <Rainier> seanthegeek, well, anywhere you like! but I'd suggest learning the basics first then working on simple apps and going on up.
[02:16:32] <seanthegeek> rainier: Thanks!
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[02:29:20] <allquixotic> Does anyone know of an IDE or similar tool that generates an implementation of an interface that encapsulates another instance of the same interface, and forwards the calls and re-throws exceptions? I'm trying to get console output of all the methods called, their parameters and their return values for a fairly hairy interface. I can do it by hand, but it'd be nice to know if there's a tool for next time.
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[02:30:31] <ndouba> hi all
[02:30:38] <vladimirs> allquixotic: NetBeans has a tool to generate GUIs
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[02:31:12] <allquixotic> vladimirs, No, I mean an "Interface", hehe, not a [Graphical User] Interface :)
[02:31:25] <allquixotic> as in: public interface Blah { ...
[02:31:28] <vladimirs> ah
[02:31:30] <NoobFukaire> a software contract
[02:31:50] <ndouba> I have a producer-consumer model written up using the Executors framework in java.util.concurrent. I took a look at the application's execution behaviour using visualvm (profiler) and noticed that only two threads are being engaged in parallel instead of 6 when i submit 6 parallel tasks.
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[02:31:58] <ndouba> any ideas what could be causing this behaviour?
[02:32:44] <NoobFukaire> sounds like you didn't make the pool large enough
[02:33:16] <ndouba> i have a pool of 10
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[02:33:24] <allquixotic> ndouba, your producer-consumer model has a bounded buffer, right?
[02:33:24] <NoobFukaire> pastebin
[02:33:28] <ndouba> isn't that enough for 6 parallel tasks?
[02:33:58] <ndouba> ~pastebin
[02:33:58] <javabot> http://mysticpaste.com - Paste the final url after you've pasted your stuff there.
[02:34:07] <allquixotic> ndouba, is it just that the tasks are sitting in the queue and not being started at all, or are the tasks being started and then blocking waiting for the buffer?
[02:34:13] <vladimirs> ndouba: are they waiting on some input? maybe there's a deadlock
[02:34:35] <NoobFukaire> lol mystic coders
[02:34:59] <ndouba> http://mysticpaste.com/view/2171
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[02:35:17] <ndouba> no all the tasks are completing
[02:35:26] <ndouba> but the problem is that only two threads are being engaged
[02:35:50] <ndouba> it seems like there is some sort of "thread affinity"
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[02:36:11] <NoobFukaire> that's usually an os thing, attaching an execution context to a specific cpu resource
[02:36:23] <NoobFukaire> so that way the memory stays coherent
[02:37:15] <ndouba> the second thing i find strange is that the second time i execute the method with the same inputs, the result gets returned 60% faster
[02:37:28] <vladimirs> caching?
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[02:37:53] <ndouba> but results are being fetched from the internet
[02:38:05] <ndouba> how could caching come into play?
[02:38:06] <NoobFukaire> you are supplying enough tasks to use that may threads right?
[02:38:16] <amr> anyone here used the genady rmi plugin?
[02:38:19] <ndouba> i am supplying 6 threads at the same time
[02:38:31] <ndouba> s/threads/tasks
[02:39:40] <ndouba> i'll paste the output log
[02:39:44] <allquixotic> even if you had a uniprocessor, it should still at least use the available threads in the pool to start each of the 6 tasks, then interleave them... I don't think the hardware is really relevant unless you expect them to run literally at the same time on a system with SMP < 6
[02:40:07] <allquixotic> what SMPness is your CPU though, out of curiosity?
[02:41:38] <ndouba> http://mysticpaste.com/view/2174 <--- timing logs
[02:42:14] <ndouba> allquixotic: it is an intel core 2 duo
[02:42:29] <allquixotic> hmm :)
[02:43:42] <ndouba> allquixotic: that doesn't really explain why only two of the 10 threads are being used at any point in time
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[02:44:22] <ndouba> i understand that SMPness would allow me to run more processes in true parallel
[02:44:35] <ndouba> but i should see some staggered activity in each thread no?
[02:45:35] <vladimirs> ndouba: if i were u, id trace the control execution but with system.out messages
[02:45:57] <allquixotic> ndouba, have you tried using something like ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor? I see that you're using FixedThreadPool but you could also use another implementation of ExecutorService
[02:46:27] <ndouba> allquixotic: the events are invoked by user actions (unfortunately). they're not scheduled events.
[02:46:34] <hiredman> ndouba: do you have the visualvm output somewhere?
[02:47:12] <allquixotic> ndouba, you don't _have_ schedule anything with ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor, it's just another implementation != the Executors.newFixedThreadPool one. I don't know how much code they share under the hood, but I suppose that'd also depend on your JVM and platform
[02:47:24] <hiredman> are you really sure only two threads are running?
[02:47:52] <allquixotic> I suppose it's possible that, for some reason, your JVM says "Oh, you have SMPness of 2, so I'm only going to run two tasks at a time" -- but that would just about defeat the purpose of the ExecutorService
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[02:49:22] <allquixotic> it's certainly not that way on my platform -- I just wrote something using ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor a couple weeks ago, and had 20 threads interleaving tasks on an 8-way Core i7
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[02:50:48] <ndouba> hmm
[02:50:52] <ndouba> sorry i was absent for a while
[02:50:57] <ndouba> i was trying to profile the code again
[02:50:58] <allquixotic> if I were you I'd set a breakpoint or suspend your program while it's running in an IDE like netbeans or eclipse, and use the threads window to see what the state of all the threads in the JVM is
[02:51:34] <ndouba> ok so i took a look again
[02:51:35] <vladimirs> allquixotic: i second that
[02:52:18] <ndouba> alright..
[02:52:19] <ndouba> one second
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[02:53:30] <allquixotic> vladimirs, but now that I think about it, I'm not exactly clear on how ndouba would distinguish between a thread that's blocked because of his application logic, and a thread that currently does not have a task from the executor
[02:53:53] <allquixotic> a blocked thread (e.g. waiting on I/O) would probably be in the "sleeping" state, right?
[02:54:01] <allquixotic> but a thread that currently has _no_ task associated would also be sleeping?
[02:54:17] <allquixotic> can probably walk the individual thread stack traces to see though :)
[02:54:46] <vladimirs> using system.out.println would still show any blocks IMO
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[02:59:24] <ndouba> hi all
[02:59:28] <ndouba> did what you suggested
[02:59:34] <ndouba> 3 tasks are running concurrently only
[02:59:42] <marcosroriz> guys do you think this name is too stupid? getSortedValidFields();
[02:59:43] <marcosroriz> ?
[03:00:05] <_W_> yes
[03:00:21] <marcosroriz> anyidea of a better name?
[03:00:33] <marcosroriz> I want to express that I'm getting the valid fields of a given class in a sorted way
[03:00:34] <_W_> something more specific
[03:00:36] <ndouba> sortValidFields?
[03:00:37] <ndouba> :P
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[03:00:49] <_W_> also, the "sorted" part might be part of the return type (e.g. SortedSet)
[03:01:01] <_W_> "fields" is meaningless
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[03:01:27] <marcosroriz> ndouba, I liike this name
[03:01:29] <marcosroriz> sortValidFields
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[03:02:04] <ndouba> so back to my threadpool problem:()
[03:02:05] <ndouba> :)
[03:02:20] <ndouba> 7 threads are suspended and 3 are running
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[03:03:46] <allquixotic> are you able to get a stack trace on the threads that are suspended?
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[03:08:58] <ndouba> allquixotic: hmmm
[03:08:58] <ndouba> ok
[03:09:00] <ndouba> i see it now
[03:09:05] <ndouba> 6 threads
[03:09:53] <ndouba> but now my problem is this... if we are interleaving then how come the time it takes to execute 5 tasks in parallel =~ 5 tasks in sequence on the first try but on the second try it's 60% faster?
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[03:12:20] <allquixotic> ndouba, might be caching somewhere between you and the remote host
[03:13:22] <allquixotic> send different data and it shouldn't be any faster
[03:13:31] <ndouba> true
[03:13:44] <ndouba> but allquixotic: the response time from the remote host is always consistent
[03:13:48] <ndouba> ~200ms per request
[03:13:48] <javabot> ndouba, I have no idea what 200ms per request is.
[03:13:56] <ndouba> lol
[03:13:56] <allquixotic> what JVM and OS?
[03:14:08] <ndouba> debian java 6se
[03:14:23] <allquixotic> Sun Java?
[03:14:32] <ndouba> yes
[03:14:38] <allquixotic> hmm, very similar to my environment then
[03:15:20] <allquixotic> have you tried replacing the "guts" of your code with just some simple print statements or producing random integers? in other words, throw out your app logic and just try basic stuff using the same executor pattern. I might be able to save you time on that actually
[03:15:32] <allquixotic> I did something for a programming assignment, but since it's all over and I got a 100%, I guess I can share with you :)
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[03:15:50] <ndouba>   lol
[03:15:59] <ndouba> graduated from university for some 10 years now;0
[03:16:20] <ndouba> i dont think you need to worry about programming assignments:)
[03:16:21] <allquixotic> it uses a ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor to push sequential integers into a buffer (producers), and print them out (consumers)
[03:16:33] <allquixotic> if you run it, and it only starts two threads, then we know it's your platform
[03:16:42] <allquixotic> I'll jar it up and send it over
[03:21:00] <armyriad> Is there anyway that I can view the code that makes up the default classes? For example, could I see the code in the ArrayList class?
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[03:23:02] <FauxFaux> armyriad: The JDK contains the code, in the cunningly disguised "src" jars.
[03:23:10] <FauxFaux> Your IDE will show you them if you haven't failed at setting it up.
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[03:24:37] <bulletxt> hi, is it somehow possible to have a portable jvm? So I can put it together with my app and use it instead of making the user have to install jvm?
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[03:26:41] <SeriousWorm> http://portableapps.com/node/903 ?
[03:26:54] <FauxFaux> bulletxt: There's no sensible way to do that.  gcj is the most popular but it sucks unbelievably terrible.
[03:27:07] <bulletxt> ok.... :) thanks
[03:27:12] <bulletxt> that's what I thought
[03:27:14] <SeriousWorm> http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/java_portable
[03:27:28] <bulletxt> SeriousWorm: thanks Ill check it out
[03:27:32] <SeriousWorm> np
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[03:41:59] <donthitme> PYTHON SUPREMACY
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[03:54:57] <tiemonster> is there a way to put focus on a text field after processing an actionPerformed?
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[04:25:35] <oorza> In an abstract class, is there a way to define it such that child classes must implement an abstract inner class?
[04:25:49] <joed> ~tias
[04:25:49] <javabot> Try it and see. You learn much more by experimentation than by asking without having even tried.
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[04:28:44] <FauxFaux> I'm confused by the question.
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[04:29:09] <joed> As is he.
[04:29:18] <joed> That is why I asked him to try it.
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[04:29:56] <oorza> Alright, I have an abstract class, and I want all children to define some methods inside an inner class.
[04:30:08] <oorza> abstract class foo { abstract class bar { } }
[04:30:40] <FauxFaux> It would be kind of cool to be able to do abstract class A { static abstract class Q { abstract void foo(); } static Q newQ() { return new Q(); } }; not that I can think of a sensible use.
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[04:31:30] <FauxFaux> You can't do that.  Why do you want to?  As I said, I can't think why.
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[04:32:20] <Soliah> Is it bad style to do while (true) { ... break } ?
[04:32:37] <AMcBain> Not necessarily.
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[04:33:05] <AMcBain> Which is the best way of saying yes and no at the same time while not expressing an opinion on it (which everyone has sooner or later).
[04:33:15] <Soliah> Hah.
[04:33:24] <yshavit> Soliah: It's not *always* bad, but it often is :)
[04:33:28] <FauxFaux> What else are you going to write?   while (somebool) { if (cond()) somebool = false; else { ... ? } };
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[04:37:42] <Soliah> Actually it was bad. Just needed to think about it differently :\
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[04:40:21] <yshavit> Soliah: that's usually the case :) while(true) is almost always (but not always always) due to not thinking about it right.
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[04:42:40] <Soliah> I guess most of the time if you have while(true) { if (cond()) ... } you can probably move cond() to while (cond()).
[04:46:50] <FauxFaux> Yeah.  Obviously ...; if(cond()) ... ; ...; } ...
[04:47:15] <yshavit> and conversely, most of the time if you have while(true) { ... if(cond()) {break;} } then it's better to do while(!cond()) {...}
[04:47:55] <yshavit> or possibly a do-while, though I may get yelled at for saying that. ;-)
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[04:48:26] <AMcBain> why?
[04:48:38] <yshavit> AMcBain: why would I get yelled at for it?
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[04:48:46] <AMcBain> yes
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[04:49:20] <yshavit> AMcBain: there are those who say it's A Bad Thing and implies code smell, though I (and I guess you) aren't among them.
[04:49:49] <AMcBain> I use what makes sense and is logical to use at the time, unless there's some other significant reason not to use it.
[04:50:20] <yshavit> Ditto. :-)
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[05:07:14] <joed> yshavit: Nothing wrong at all with a do while, a BREAK might be another question, same as a continue, document it.
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[05:09:11] <joed> yshavit: Out of context and unless we did peek at your code combined with the comments I don't think we should comment.
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[05:23:31] <enav> hello
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[05:25:28] <yshavit> hello, enav
[05:25:58] <enav> ^_^
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[05:32:46] <QbY> what's the easiest way to backup to prevent destruction from updateS?
[05:33:00] <QbY> i have a second drive---i'd like to make a mirror image..
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[05:33:30] <enav> i use a program called syncnow
[05:33:39] <meatmanek> regularly back up your data
[05:33:41] <yshavit> I use hopes and prayers.
[05:33:44] <yshavit> or a VM
[05:33:55] <meatmanek> make
[05:34:01] <meatmanek> whoops wrong window =P
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[05:34:36] <yshavit> "make" is an anagram of a subset of the characters of "meatmanek." Coincidence?
[05:34:38] <QbY> well this is the first time i've installed updates since getting my video system working right
[05:35:04] <QbY> i guess i could always just back up / to my second drive
[05:35:11] <QbY> and if x won't start, restore it
[05:35:26] <meatmanek> you should probably ask for this kind of advice in your distro's channel
[05:35:27] <the_birdman> ~javadoc AttributedString
[05:35:28] <javabot> the_birdman: http://is.gd/ayzto [JDK: java.text.AttributedString]
[05:35:29] <meatmanek> instead of #java
[05:35:39] <QbY> fuck
[05:35:45] <QbY> sorry just realized the window
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[05:36:03] <meatmanek> it happens
[05:36:11] <QbY> i joined it--just didn't switch
[05:36:14] <QbY> long day
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[05:43:58] <_mutex> hey guys
[05:44:04] <_mutex> i have a question regarding bytecode validation
[05:44:13] <_mutex> is the following case valid:
[05:44:40] <_mutex> having an exception entry whose handler_pc points to an 'aload' instruction, which is followed by a 'moniterexit' instruction
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[05:48:06] <rjcarr> i'm using a buffered image to composite two images together, where the top image has transparent portions
[05:48:45] <rjcarr> however, sometimes, the top image doesn't have transparent portions, and in this case, I'd like to not also create the bottom image (since it won't be seen)
[05:49:18] <rjcarr> and the top image is created with a huge collection of various paths (basically, i'm contouring data)
[05:49:42] <rjcarr> so ... is there any way to know if the image has an alpha portion, without querying each pixel?
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[05:52:32] <AMcBain> not really, unless it's loaded up as a format that doesn't support transparency, then you would be able to possibly tell by checking the format.
[05:53:30] <AMcBain> but depending on what sizes you consider to be significant, you don't have to check /every/ pixel.
[05:54:23] <AMcBain> just the verticies of a grid that leaves cells just smaller than an area size you consider significant.
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[05:59:49] <rjcarr> AMcBain: The images are always 256x256 but the transparency can occur anywhere
[06:00:30] <rjcarr> e.g., http://raptor.apl.washington.edu/eis/gebcosat/1/0/0.png
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[06:01:19] <rjcarr> The contoured area is only for the water, but if water is the only thing in the image, then I don't need to include the satellite background
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[06:01:56] <rjcarr> Your first suggestion is interesting ... could you explain a bit more about that?
[06:02:51] <enav> i can see my home on that picture
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[06:15:22] <armyriad> What source lookup path should I enter into Eclipse on Linux?
[06:16:25] <QbY> anyone have a good tutorial for creating threads based on serversockets?
[06:20:25] <_mutex> QbY, you mean a thread-per-client design?
[06:20:47] <_mutex> that is quite an awful choice to be quite frank
[06:20:58] <QbY> _mutex: ..yes
[06:21:18] <_mutex> not really much of a tutorial needed
[06:21:27] <_mutex> ServerSocket ss = new ServerSocket(..);
[06:21:58] <_mutex> while(..) { new ClientThread(ss.accept()).start(); }
[06:22:26] <_mutex> assuming ClientThread is a java.lang.Thread subclass
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[06:23:09] <QbY> k
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[06:28:47] <goddard> I am trying to make my first jar file or exectuable type of file and it isn't working I am using BlueJ
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[06:29:52] <harmaz> hi i've only developed java in IDEs. whats the simplest way to build and compile via command line? Makefiles?
[06:31:50] <the_birdman> ~ant
[06:31:51] <javabot> the_birdman, ant is a tool for building Java programs, found at http://ant.apache.org
[06:32:03] <the_birdman> ~javac
[06:32:04] <javabot> Here is some information about javac that you may find useful: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/tools/solaris/javac.html
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[06:36:08] <goddard> dose anyone know how to create a exectuable
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[06:47:47] <the_birdman> ~~goddard izpack
[06:47:48] <javabot> goddard, izpack is an installer for java apps - http://izpack.org
[06:47:56] <the_birdman> ~~goddard jsmooth
[06:47:56] <javabot> goddard, I have no idea what jsmooth is.
[06:48:44] <the_birdman> ~jsmooth is <reply>JSmooth is a Java Executable Wrapper. It creates native Windows launchers (standard .exe) for your java applications. See http://jsmooth.sourceforge.net/
[06:48:44] <javabot> OK, the_birdman.
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[06:49:31] <the_birdman> ~makeself is <reply>Makeself is a small shell script that generates a self-extractable tar.gz archive from a directory. See http://megastep.org/makeself/
[06:49:31] <javabot> OK, the_birdman.
[06:49:32] <chewed-on> What does it mean again when I use the keyword 'this' after a class name ?
[06:49:43] <chewed-on> e.g. MyClass.this
[06:50:44] <_mutex> is it possible to produce exception entries with javac whose handler_pc's point to an instruction that is not ASTORE?
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[06:56:47] <allquixotic> Does anyone know if javax.swing.table.TableModel.getRowCount() should count the column header row in the row count?
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[07:01:08] <FauxFaux> (Oh heart, zsh completes javap -c arguments)
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[07:04:09] <the_birdman> allquixotic: , no
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[07:18:57] <w00tz_> Hello, I'm largely a C++/Python developer that has dabbled in a few projects for Java (nothing too serious), I was wondering if there's a programming reference (book and/or online reference is fine) that can quickly get me up to speed regarding various advanced java topics as well as java's toolchains (e.g. ant, etc).
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[07:21:05] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: Not really.
[07:22:35] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: There are multiple sources of information.  Java comprises so many technologies that you may want to fine tune the scope of what you're looking for.
[07:23:14] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: The same applies to the toolchain.  You start with getting the JDK and then must make choices based on what you're trying to accomplish.  You'll find strong biases toward Maven or Ant, depending on who you ask.
[07:23:29] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: Same about ancillary development tools like IDEs.
[07:25:53] <w00tz_> pr3d4k4t: I use emacs for almsot all development, but I've used Netbeans before
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[07:26:08] <w00tz_> pr3d4k4t: interestingly enough, that's the sort of answered I feared, but thanks.
[07:26:33] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: Don't feel bad.
[07:26:57] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: I use Vim/MacVim for all my Java development, Maven, JDK.  It's all about what you want to accomplish.
[07:27:26] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: I don't like any of the IDEs out there except for Xcode, and I learned to like that one only for Mac development, non-Java.
[07:27:41] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: If I were going to use a Java IDE, though, I'd go for IDEA.
[07:29:02] <_mutex> eclipse is good as well
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[07:35:15] <chewed-on> w00tz_: want to try android development like me ? :D
[07:35:20] <chewed-on> I got 0 programming experience too lol
[07:35:27] <chewed-on> you got an advantage :)
[07:35:46] <chewed-on> w00tz_: it uses Java
[07:36:27] <chewed-on> Eclipse + Java
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[07:37:25] <respecting> hi please i have a big problem making my asp.net with more than one language(i want it in french and english).The problem is that in JAva world there is somehting called Internationlisation i had to use RessourceBundle but in dotnet i have made a search on google i don't know what must i use please can some body help me :( ? and thanks in advance
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[07:41:34] <FauxFaux> respecting: Um, you're in the wrong channel for asp.net help.
[07:41:46] <respecting> ah ok thanks
[07:42:01] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: Eclipse is good if you don't mind dealing with an endless learning curve.  Professional developers gravitate toward IDEA because it's a much better product.  The Java version is free to use; enterprise development requires paying for a license.
[07:42:40] <respecting> by the way i have a question what's the future of J2EE i have heard it will disapear or it will not be Free coz oracle have bought sun
[07:42:41] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: Based on all the projects I led and the development budgets I managed, if you give developers the option of getting IDEA they'll chose that over any other tool.
[07:43:08] <karstensrage> ~emacs++
[07:43:08] <javabot> emacs has a karma level of 7, karstensrage
[07:43:11] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: Remember that I don't use any of those IDEs anyway, so I don't care either way.
[07:43:35] <pr3d4k4t> w00tz_: But people I managed do, and they unwaveringly go for IDEA.  So do most hardcore guys here in ##java.
[07:43:52] <w00tz_> I'll give it as hot
[07:44:30] <chewed-on> Eclipse is industry standard no ? :P
[07:46:10] <Nachturnal> I don't even know how to begin explaining this without showing my code. Basically I'm trying to test some java concepts with a program that tests whether CLI input matches a string. But I can't get it working correctly. Link: http://etherpad.com/nachturnal
[07:46:37] <Nachturnal> Even when I type the correct response, I get the "else" output.
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[07:47:33] <_KY_> How can I convert an object into JSON?
[07:48:05] <pr3d4k4t> ~tell _KY_ about Gson
[07:48:05] <javabot> _KY_, gson is an Apache 2.0 licensed JSON processing library written by Google.  It uses annotations and reflection to serialize/dseralize JSON objecs to and from POJOs. It can be found here: http://bit.ly/LOCU1 . See also ~json.
[07:48:28] <Nachturnal> Can anyone point out what I'm doing wrong?
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[07:50:00] <Stericson> hello!
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[07:50:43] <Nachturnal> hi
[07:50:56] <FauxFaux> Nachturnal: Your problem is related to the fact that you seem to think an ajax pastebin is a good idea.
[07:51:48] <FauxFaux> ~~ Nachturnal string comparison
[07:51:48] <javabot> Nachturnal, string comparison is http://mindprod.com/jgloss/string.html
[07:52:00] <Stericson> whats the best way, to have java browse a directory on a server and return files one by one (these files would be images) Im not looking for the answer per say but a starting point will get melooking in the right direction
[07:52:20] <Nachturnal> FauxFaux, thanks. Is it really so bad to use Etherpad, though?
[07:52:24] <FauxFaux> ~~ Stericson javadoc File
[07:52:24] <javabot> Stericson: http://is.gd/3okU3 [JDK: java.io.File]; http://is.gd/isoT [Wicket: org.apache.wicket.util.file.File]; http://is.gd/3okTU [Wicket1.4: org.apache.wicket.util.file.File]
[07:52:42] <FauxFaux> Nachturnal: I normally open pastebins in links.
[07:52:49] <Stericson> Fantastic thanks :)
[07:53:34] <enav> how do you guys compress those links???
[07:53:49] <Iszak> ...
[07:54:09] <FauxFaux> Assumably is.gd has an api.
[07:54:49] <enav> how do you make a normal link short  like this  http://is.gd/3okU3
[07:54:51] <Nachturnal> FauxFaux, Nice, that link is just what I needed. Thanks again.
[07:54:59] <enav> is some kind of Md5 compression
[07:55:19] <FauxFaux> Nachturnal: That would have been covered by any beginners documentation / lectures on about page one... just so you know.
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[07:58:04] <enav> thanks   that is a nice tool
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[08:00:05] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: He wants to do it on a server.
[08:00:44] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: When you say "on a server" do you mean connecting to the server over something other than NFS or SMB/CIFS or talking to the file system?
[08:00:56] <FauxFaux> pr3d4k4t: Mmm, I didn't read it that way.  But yes, I may have jus tscrewed him a little.
[08:00:58] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: If so, you want to look at WebDAV and see if it's supported by the server.
[08:01:05] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: ;)
[08:01:21] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: Let's hope he meant local file system, or locally-accessible file system ;)
[08:01:22] <Stericson> yea...I mean like going through http :)
[08:01:32] <Stericson> not locally available
[08:01:43] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: OKi, then check this out:
[08:01:50] <pr3d4k4t> ~tell Stericson about HttpClient
[08:01:50] <javabot> Stericson, httpclient is a deprecated http client package for Java by Jakarta. It can be found at http://hc.apache.org/httpclient-3.x/index.html - note that it has dependencies like commons-codec, commons-logging, and possibly the other 18,000 jakarta dependencies that tend to accompany any single jakarta lib. Otherwise, great stuff. See ~httpcomponents for more current stuff.
[08:01:51] <FauxFaux> There's no such thing s a list of files for plain http.  You get back a web page.  You get to look at the web page.
[08:02:06] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: There are also a couple of WebDAV clients.
[08:02:10] <pr3d4k4t> ~WebDAV
[08:02:10] <javabot> pr3d4k4t, I have no idea what WebDAV is.
[08:02:17] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: Google for that.
[08:02:20] <FauxFaux> Nor should anyone else. /o\
[08:02:23] <the_birdman> ~webdavclient4j
[08:02:23] <javabot> the_birdman, I have no idea what webdavclient4j is.
[08:02:41] <Stericson> Thanks, ive used that to download files, just so far I havent figured out how I can browse for files...etc, but I will google it, thanks :)
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[08:03:45] <Stericson> Thanks again guys :)
[08:03:47] <enav> lol so nice http://is.gd/azkzy
[08:04:01] <the_birdman> ~webdavclient4j is <reply>webdavclient4j is a generic WebDAV client for Java born after the death of jakarta slide. See http://sourceforge.net/projects/webdavclient4j/
[08:04:01] <javabot> OK, the_birdman.
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[08:08:53] <Stericson> web
[08:09:15] <Stericson> webDav looks more like an extension for writing to files on a server, or writing to a server
[08:09:22] <Stericson> is that a correct statement?
[08:09:46] <Stericson> (im still reading, but making sure I'm understanding it)
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[08:14:58] <FauxFaux> Yeah, it's terrible, don't use it. ¬_¬
[08:15:13] * pr3d4k4t smacks FauxFaux.
[08:15:18] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: WebDAV is fine.
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[08:15:30] <yokai> hay, good evening
[08:15:31] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: Just assume that you do all the heavy lifting.
[08:15:36] <pr3d4k4t> ~tell yokai about welcome.
[08:15:36] <javabot> yokai:  http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=welcome
[08:15:39] <FauxFaux> She's writing a spider, not a well-defined client. :p
[08:16:09] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: That doesn't mean it's fine to dis WebDAV ;)
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[08:16:22] <yokai> sorry, i'm from brazil, o'clock is now 4:19am
[08:16:33] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: Pretty large apps use it all the time, and it's been stable for 12 years or so.
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[08:17:24] <FauxFaux> Yeah, I'm kind of biased by having tried to work with subverison.  Calling something fail because it's associated with the official subversion implementation is hardly fair.
[08:17:54] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: If it's good enough for .Mac/MobileMe and it's hundreds of thousands of users, it's probably fine.
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[08:21:18] <Stericson> lol
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[08:22:15] <FauxFaux> pr3d4k4t: Doesn't it require some stupidly large number of roundtrips for some simple operations?
[08:22:31] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: It requires whatever it requires.  Look at the WebDAV spec :)
[08:22:47] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: It'll require at least an OPTIONS and  GET if you're fetching files.
[08:22:55] <FauxFaux> I can't remember what I was reading.
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[08:24:49] <Stericson> well
[08:25:00] <Stericson> Ill read up on both suggested methods
[08:25:08] <Stericson> FauxFaux what do you recommend?
[08:25:27] <FauxFaux> UrlConnection and a ton of regexes. *runs*
[08:25:41] <Stericson> *jaw drop*
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[08:27:18] <Stericson> I'll read up on both, it will be beneficial at any rate :)
[08:27:36] <Stericson> thanks to you both.
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[08:33:32] <pr3d4k4t> Stericson: Use a WebDAV client.
[08:33:39] <pr3d4k4t> ~tell Stericson about regex
[08:33:39] <javabot> Stericson, Please see the tutorial at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/regex/ -- If you know what you're doing, go to http://javachannel.net/wiki/pmwiki.php/FAQ/Regexp ; otherwise ask me about javadoc Pattern or javadoc String.split(*)
[08:34:14] <Stericson> ok
[08:34:18] <Stericson> Reading up on that as well
[08:34:47] <pr3d4k4t> FauxFaux: http://rifers.org/paste/show/541 ;)
[08:35:06] <_KY_> gson.toJson() is supposed to convert any object?
[08:35:24] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Converter tool = new Converter();
[08:35:38] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: tool.toJson(yourObject);
[08:35:48] <FauxFaux> pr3d4k4t: Ew mac!
[08:35:56] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Or, more aptly:  String payload = tool.toJson(yourObject);
[08:35:58] <oorza> Is there anyway to use byte[] as keys in a Hashset?
[08:36:26] <_KY_> pr3d4k4t: where is Converter imported from?
[08:36:29] <freeone3000> List<Byte>, but be sure to wrap it with Collections.unmodifiableList() first.
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[08:37:28] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Oh, wait.
[08:37:34] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: I think it's Gson, yes.
[08:37:38] <oorza> freeone3000, is that me?
[08:37:40] <oorza> for me*
[08:37:42] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: import com.google.gson.Gson;
[08:37:52] <_KY_> Well.. I did that
[08:37:54] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: I haven't used it in a few weeks.
[08:37:58] <_KY_> But it failed
[08:38:01] <oorza> well let me explain
[08:38:02] <freeone3000> oorza: Yes.
[08:38:02] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: ?
[08:38:07] * pr3d4k4t checks the code.
[08:38:10] <_KY_> The convertion got an error
[08:39:32] <oorza> I have a binary field in a database that's stored non-binary (not my requirement) as distorted UTF-8 and I need to compare it to a query string parameter. :x
[08:40:18] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Then something must be fux'd with your object.
[08:40:24] <oorza> And since there's like 350,000 entries, I figured a HashSet would be the fastest/best way to do that but...
[08:40:24] <adaro> oorza: that wont work
[08:40:25] <oorza> :\
[08:40:28] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Check that all member references are serializable, for starters.
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[08:40:40] <_KY_> The error is "circular reference exception"
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[08:40:50] <adaro> oorza: you'll get illegal ut8 sequences if you store binary data in there
[08:41:03] <adaro> codepage encodings will work, not utf8
[08:41:08] <oorza> adaro, I know
[08:41:14] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: All you need is:  private static Gson converter = new Gson();
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[08:41:31] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Then, every time you need to convert you just issue:  String s = converter.toJson();
[08:41:37] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Then, every time you need to convert you just issue:  String s = converter.toJson(myObject);
[08:41:39] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: :)
[08:42:12] * pr3d4k4t ponders scaring _KY_ a little :)
[08:42:51] <_KY_> Heh... I'm not scared... but the conversion fails for some reason... =)
[08:42:58] <adaro> oorza: your whole question makes little sense then :)
[08:43:14] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: http://eugeneciurana.com/musings/dynamic_mule_updates/muleservice.py.html - this is what might scare you ;)  Line 48.  That's all you need to do, really.
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[08:43:33] <adaro> you can always base64 encode itm
[08:43:43] <oorza> adaro, I can get the byte sequence out of the database (duh) and get the byte sequence from the query string, but I'm not sure if there's a fast way to compare them.
[08:43:44] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: What error does it give you?
[08:43:51] <oorza> adaro, I can't change the database at all.
[08:44:00] <_KY_> The error is "circular reference exception"
[08:45:05] <adaro> oorza: Arrays.equals
[08:45:05] <adaro> but i doubt you'll get the correct bytes from the database
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[08:45:46] <oorza> So there's no way for me to get the correct bytes out of the database without converting the way the information is stored?
[08:45:55] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: That means one of your references is referring to the object that you want to serialize.
[08:46:02] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Something is pointing at this within that object.
[08:46:08] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Fix that and you're set.
[08:46:29] <adaro> oorza: you can store it as base64 encoded data
[08:46:42] <_KY_> It's not really my object...
[08:46:47] <oorza> adaro, then I'd have to change the way it was stored, no?
[08:46:53] <adaro> thats kinda verbose tho
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[08:47:25] <adaro> oorza: the column type stays the same,but you'd have to convert existing data (its probably corrupted anyway)
[08:47:54] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: Then you need to serialize it manually.
[08:48:12] <oorza> It's not corrupted because the existing app, which is written in PHP and thus not character safe aware, works.
[08:48:17] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: I assume that it has some kind of accessor for the attributes that you care about.  You build the JSON representation manually.
[08:48:33] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: And you bitch to the retards who built the object in the same place to fix their code ;)
[08:48:36] <oorza> character-set aware*
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[08:49:46] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: http://sites.google.com/site/gson/gson-user-guide#TOC-Using-Gson
[08:50:37] <_KY_> Pr3d4k4t: thanks... maybe I don't need to do that anyway... but thanks
[08:50:39] <adaro> oorza:  if you can somehow get the raw bytes by all means do
[08:50:51] <pr3d4k4t> _KY_: You're welcome.  May the Source be with you.
[08:51:04] <adaro> but if you fetch it as a string then call getBytes() it will be corrupt
[08:51:10] <oorza> adaro, I would think getBinaryStream() and ByteArrayOutputStream would work?
[08:51:56] <adaro> oorza: try it and see
[08:54:58] <oorza> nope
[08:54:58] <oorza> :X
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[09:29:24] <enav> I wonder if there is any easy way to encrypt / decrypt a string using a key
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[09:32:46] <armyriad> The MessageDigest class can encrypt a string.
[09:33:24] <enav> i will google it
[09:33:29] <enav> thanks mate
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[09:38:56] <adaro> MessageDIgests are for oneway hashing. eg non reversable
[09:38:59] <adaro> if you also need to be able to read the data back then you probably need something like javax.crypto.Cipher
[09:40:06] <enav> yep i need to code a message send the message to another computer and decode that message at recipient
[09:41:32] <enav> (String)--->(Codification)---->[Send over TCP/IP]--->(decodification)---->(String)
[09:42:21] <adaro> then messageDigest is useless to you
[09:42:22] <enav> i want to do something easy like this    method(String, key)
[09:43:26] <enav> hum
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[09:44:25] <enav> i made long time ago a encryption method but this works like a trick   not like a real encryptator
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[09:45:23] <adaro> enav:  why not use SSLSocket then
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[09:46:23] <enav> i need to read about "Sockets Direct Protocol"  to finish the java trial
[09:47:04] <enav> maybe on that topic is the solution
[09:47:53] <oorza> adaro, alright, I got it converted to a blob, but I still need to compare the binary data in the blob field (20 bytes) to a GET parameter and I'm having no luck :\
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[09:49:43] <adaro> oorza: how are you encoding the get parameter
[09:51:09] <oorza> adaro, it's URL encoder
[09:51:13] <oorza> encoded*
[09:51:55] <oorza> %f1%a8%db%3a_%b4m%05%11Cu-%e5s%7d%82%c1%1b%81%f3
[09:51:57] <oorza> There's an example
[09:51:59] <adaro> oorza: urlencoder takes a string not a byte array
[09:52:13] <oorza> I'm not sending these requests, just receiving them!
[09:54:03] <oorza> I can iterate over the lsit of results, using ArrayUtils.isEquals (from apache commons, with request.getParamter().getBytes("ISO-8859-1") and blob.getBytes()) and get a find, but I can't afford to iterate over everything
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[09:57:35] <adaro> sigh.. just about everything you are trying to do seems wrong on so many different levels
[09:57:59] <oorza> :X
[09:58:06] <oorza> Well it *is* 4 AM :P
[09:58:55] <adaro> what exactly are you trying to build
[09:59:11] <adaro> because whatever it is you are probably doing it wrong
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[10:01:05] <oorza> A bittorrent tracker :P
[10:01:21] <oorza> And no, the spec is just that retarded.
[10:01:57] <oorza> info_hash, the hash that identifies the unique content, is a raw binary hash that's sent URL encoded over the wire as a get parameter and every database implementation on the planet stores them the same way.
[10:04:05] <oorza> WEll, not url encoded, but as binary crap.
[10:05:48] <enav> soo   SSLSocket  is secure enough to transmit sensitive data?
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[10:06:55] <Peteris> how to disable newlines in JTextAreas?
[10:07:00] <Peteris> or maybe there is another component for that?
[10:07:16] <enav> yep
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[10:07:31] <enav> jtextfield
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[10:07:42] <enav> have no newlines
[10:07:46] <Peteris> thank you!
[10:08:14] <jottinger> ~documentation++
[10:08:14] <javabot> documentation has a karma level of 2, jottinger
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[10:11:02] <enav> Peteris: http://is.gd/azUef
[10:11:41] <enav> look at the char
[10:11:45] <enav> chart
[10:11:48] <adaro> oorza: how long is the hash, either store it as a number in the database or hex encode it and save it as a string , then just use where
[10:12:42] <oorza> adaro, it's a sha1 hash.  Is there a method somewhere to convert byte arrays to hex strings?
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[10:15:23] <enav> im f*** tired    bay bay
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[12:01:45] <ThJ> In what situations would you get a NullPointerException without a stacktrace in it?
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[12:02:00] <ThJ> Because I am apparently getting that.
[12:02:12] <jottinger> ThJ: using callables?
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[12:03:25] <ThJ> jottinger: hmm, not that I am aware of...
[12:03:36] <jottinger> pastebin it, then.
[12:04:07] <ThJ> if I knew where the exception happened, i would, but the possible source spans dozens of source files...
[12:05:04] <selckin> log the thread name
[12:06:34] <selckin> run in a debugger with break on all nullexceptions
[12:08:11] <ThJ> Couldn't do that since it only happens live, after running for a few hours, not under testing. But I think I found one of them that -does- have a stack trace. For some odd reason it doesn't always -give- me one...
[12:08:28] <selckin> more likely you don't log it
[12:08:58] <selckin> and log the thread names with and, and name them properly in executors etc
[12:09:04] <ThJ> Odd, since there's a blank line where the stack trace should be
[12:09:19] <ThJ> I do name threads but I'm using NIO, so...
[12:10:20] <ThJ> Odd... This exception is happening in a place where it shouldn't...
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[12:11:24] <ThJ> connection.getSendQueue().offer(new CommandEntry(e.getKey(), new SetLayerCommand(server.getCanvas().getLayerMap().getKeyForValue(u.getLayer()))));
[12:11:31] <jottinger> heh
[12:11:44] <jottinger> chaining fail :)
[12:11:59] <ThJ> connection is always initialized there, layer is checked for null, any canvas has a layermap...
[12:12:17] <jottinger> key for value is always set?
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[12:12:35] <selckin> 'e' and 'u' ?
[12:12:51] <BenMCOB> I'm a little out of practice with Java and having a brainfart moment.  Can anyone see what's wrong with this code?  Best I can tell it should work fine http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=42580
[12:12:54] <ThJ> Even if it is not, SetLayerCommand's constructor doesn't care about null values.
[12:13:45] <ThJ> e = Map.Entry<Integer, Connection>
[12:13:48] <selckin> BenMCOB: the error is clearly irrelevant
[12:13:50] <ThJ> Wait... I think I see something here.
[12:14:04] <ThJ> u = e.getValue().getUser() could potentially be null
[12:14:05] <BenMCOB> selckin, how so?
[12:14:24] <ThJ> no wait
[12:14:25] <ThJ> if(u != null && u != connection.getUser()) {
[12:14:26] <selckin> BenMCOB: it's not related at all, so don't provide it in the question
[12:14:26] <ThJ> Damn it!
[12:14:37] <ThJ> I'm checking everything
[12:14:44] <jottinger> BenMCOB: what error are you getting
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[12:16:40] <BenMCOB> Doesn't specify it.  It's an android application and force quits when that particular method is called during the inital setup.
[12:17:30] <BenMCOB> If I comment out that one line where it add's the Context object to the list collection, it doesn't have a problem
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[12:20:03] <BenMCOB> wait, I think I'm seeing it
[12:20:39] <BenMCOB> It looks like Context also refers to an Interface in the Java API
[12:25:23] <BenMCOB> nope, still get the error
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[12:27:24] <jottinger> hmm, the topic shoudl probably specify android is like j2me and applet
[12:28:14] <selckin> also it will give you an error, run it in a debugger or emulator or whatever
[12:28:21] <selckin> notting every fails without telling you why
[12:28:28] <selckin> if it does, you're doing it wrong
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[12:29:15] <seisatsu> how should I go about learning java if I already know C++?
[12:29:26] <ztj> first, forget C++
[12:29:30] <d1b> ztj: lies
[12:29:41] <selckin> spend 5min learning the syntax, and done?
[12:29:42] <d1b> seisatsu: do some more ooo stuff / see  the sun java doc
[12:29:54] <selckin> the rest will come as you go
[12:29:59] <seisatsu> derp
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[12:34:23] <edi_99> Hi guys. I've got a JFrame with lot's of JComponents on it. Among them, there is JList. Every time the values in the JList are cleared, all the components of the JFrame are slightly resized, which is a bit annoying. Is there any way I can avoid that?
[12:37:15] <jottinger> seisatsu: it's pretty easy
[12:37:32] <seisatsu> yeah I know
[12:37:43] <seisatsu> the conventions and syntax are just a bit different
[12:38:07] <seisatsu> but just enough that I might need a little briefing
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[12:39:39] <jottinger> nah, just flick your way through the first cup tutorial and you'll have most of it
[12:39:45] <jottinger> which version of C++ are you used to?
[12:39:52] <seisatsu> version?
[12:39:55] <seisatsu> GCC
[12:40:00] <jottinger> yes, which rev of C++
[12:40:03] <jottinger> not compiler
[12:40:07] <seisatsu> revision...
[12:40:20] <seisatsu> I guess the current one
[12:40:21] <jottinger> you do know that C++ has revisions, right? It's ANSI specified?
[12:40:24] <seisatsu> yes
[12:40:39] <jottinger> okay. If you're used to the pre-ANSI/ISO revisions, java's trivial.
[12:40:47] <seisatsu> I only started C++ several months ago
[12:41:08] <jottinger> If you're used to C++0x, it's a little more involved, because C++0x suffers from perl's keyboard-vomititis.
[12:41:21] <jottinger> So it kinda depends on how deeply you nest your templates, etc.
[12:41:23] <seisatsu> nope
[12:41:29] <seisatsu> GCC doesn't support it yet
[12:41:29] <jottinger> nope what?
[12:41:33] <seisatsu> C++0x
[12:41:49] <jottinger> ah, well, GCC supports boost, and boost was part of the keyboard vomit bit
[12:42:03] <seisatsu> I don't use boost.
[12:42:05] <seisatsu> too big.
[12:42:07] <jottinger> I *totally* dig boost, but it led to common and idiomatic C++ syntax that's horrible.
[12:42:16] <jottinger> seisatsu: heh, you'll hate java then on the same basis :)
[12:42:41] <seisatsu> yeah... but, all those libraries are packed with the standard runtime
[12:42:54] <jottinger> and boost isn't? :)
[12:43:01] <seisatsu> my issue was with packaging huge external libraries with my programs
[12:43:12] <seisatsu> well, boost doesn't come with the compiler :/
[12:43:25] <jottinger> if only there were dynamic libs supported on popular OSes.
[12:43:26] <selckin> you'll soon be including huge java libaries don't worry
[12:43:27] <jottinger> :)
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[12:43:35] <seisatsu> yes, I know
[12:43:49] <seisatsu> 100mb of runtime
[12:44:00] <seisatsu> or is it more now?
[12:44:09] <seisatsu> I remember when java was 60mb
[12:44:10] <jottinger> the C++ STL is largely built from Boost, so you still haven't escaped it
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[12:44:33] <seisatsu> I did not realize this. :<
[12:44:48] <jottinger> anyway, java's syntax is WAY simpler than ISO C++
[12:44:59] <jottinger> so it shouldn't be difficult to pick up.
[12:45:15] <seisatsu> well, actually, boost probably isn't a problem, if your linker is smart enough to only grab functions you use.
[12:45:27] <jottinger> the type system is also more strict; the compiler helps a lot. (The runtime gets in the way, mind, but the COMPILER helps.)
[12:45:33] <seisatsu> yeah
[12:45:42] <seisatsu> I've heard it makes everything easy
[12:45:56] <jottinger> Java also favors composition to inheritance, since inheritance is expensive (single inheritance only)
[12:45:58] <seisatsu> I'm working with a friend to write a game engine
[12:46:07] <jottinger> oh, you're doomed then
[12:46:13] <seisatsu> and he spontaneously decided to switch from C++ to Java
[12:46:32] <seisatsu> we hadn't really done anything yet.
[12:46:50] <selckin> the main thing is probably that generics aren't templates and not types
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[12:47:24] <jottinger> seisatsu: what kind of game?
[12:47:43] <seisatsu> tile-based 2D engine
[12:47:49] <seisatsu> in the style of Yume Nikki
[12:48:00] <seisatsu> we're writing a client/server
[12:48:08] <jottinger> NOOOOO
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[12:48:14] <jottinger> DAMN YOU WHITE UNICORN
[12:48:16] <seisatsu> NOOOOO?
[12:48:23] <seisatsu> wait what
[12:48:24] <jottinger> (nethack.)
[12:48:28] <seisatsu> derp.
[12:48:38] <jottinger> what does "derp" mean?
[12:49:05] <seisatsu> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/ninjachan/Humor/DERP-megaman.jpg
[12:49:11] <seisatsu> kinda like "doh"
[12:49:24] <SeriousWorm> [12:49:16] [jottinger]: Java also favors composition to inheritance, since inheritance is expensive (single inheritance only)
[12:49:28] <SeriousWorm> what do you mean by expensive?
[12:49:38] <jottinger> SeriousWorm: you only get one ancestor.
[12:49:47] <SeriousWorm> why is that expensive in cpu/memory terms?
[12:49:52] <jottinger> It isn't.
[12:50:04] <SeriousWorm> then your definition of "expensive" is different that mine. :)
[12:50:16] <jottinger> sure. Mine refers to scarcity of resources.
[12:50:21] <SeriousWorm> ok.
[12:50:24] <SeriousWorm> then your definition of "resource" is different that mine. :)
[12:50:33] <jottinger> So "it takes a lot of CPU" is "expensive" and "you only get one ancestor" is "expensive."
[12:51:12] <jottinger> SeriousWorm: I don't see any reason to add unnecessary and unimplied restrictions to the definition.
[12:51:27] <jottinger> "That watch is EXPENSIVE!" "No, it's not. It takes 0% of my cpu and RAM."
[12:53:25] <jottinger> OTOH, if you use 'expensive' in the 'uses more of a scarce resource' then the statement makes sense.
[12:53:35] <SeriousWorm> money is a resource :/
[12:53:50] <jottinger> object ancestry is expensive because you get ONE ancestor, compared to N interfaces.
[12:53:57] <jottinger> One would think it was, yes.
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[13:37:42] <s_n> hi
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[13:43:03] <s_n> after reading the topic i assume it's not the right place to ask about jnlp?;>
[13:43:12] <ztj> that's fine
[13:43:17] <ztj> as long as it's for JWS :)
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[13:48:40] <s_n> there is a jnlp file (xml), which has some <jar href="">s definitions. i want to download these jars, which are on the remote server. if i want to access them directly via browser or curl i get information that the GET method is not supported. maybe java can download these jars to the local hard disk and cache them? or maybe there is another way?
[13:49:17] <ernimril> s_n: you are most probably just using the wrong url
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[13:50:14] <ernimril> s_n: normal webstart uses a standard URLClassLoader to get the jars and that means normal GET on a http and/or https resource
[13:50:35] <s_n> hm
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[13:51:30] <ernimril> s_n: you can of course always use wireshark or a similar network sniffer to see what really happen on the wire
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[13:51:59] <s_n> that's a good idea.
[13:52:01] <s_n> http://pastebin.com/JLbYjeTV
[13:52:14] <s_n> this is part of the jnlp file content
[13:53:01] <s_n> i tried to access https://foo.tld/path/application/client/foo.jar but without success.
[13:53:27] <s_n> anyway, sniffer is a good point to start
[13:53:44] <ernimril> s_n: well, start wireshark tell it to record the network traffic to that host, start the program and see the traffic
[13:53:50] <s_n> however, it's https so i'm not sure if i'll be able to see the requests
[13:54:08] <ernimril> s_n: ok, then you will not
[13:55:15] <s_n> maybe some ssl proxy will do the work however i must google for such solution. that why i was wondering if there is any other way to do it.
[13:55:51] <ernimril> s_n: you are doing it correctly, but you may have messed the url up in some way, hard to say
[13:57:38] <s_n> ok, got it!
[13:57:54] <s_n> should omit the "application" part and it works:)
[13:57:58] <s_n> thanks ernimril :-)
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[13:59:30] <rawtaz> s_n: did you mean the successful url was https://foo.tld/path/client/foo.jar?
[14:01:48] <s_n> yup
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[14:14:40] <rawtaz> oki :)
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[14:24:24] <randoms> hey guys. if i want to check if an Object is of class Address, how should i do that? i thought about if (obj.getClass() == new Address().getClass()). whould that be the "right" way to do it. or is there some other way to specify Address without creating a new object?
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[14:25:01] <selckin> ~instanceof
[14:25:01] <javabot> selckin, instanceof is a way for checking if a given object is of a certain type. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/instanceof.html for examples.
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[14:25:52] <randoms> ah sweet, thnx.
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[15:00:32] <RLa> wow, reflection defeats language access controls?
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[15:01:13] <RLa> i always though that you can only access methods and fields that are accessible through normal ways
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[15:01:26] <selckin> nope, you can do anything you want
[15:01:42] <RLa> uh oh
[15:01:51] <selckin> kinda what makes it usefull too
[15:01:53] <ernimril> RLa: unless there is a security manager installed
[15:02:06] <ernimril> RLa: access control is mostly there to help the programmer
[15:02:28] <ernimril> RLa: you are supposed to use this method, it is public, you are not supposed to touch this method, it is private
[15:04:06] <paulweb515> RLa: to make reflection useful, they had to allow it (SecurityManager permitting) free reign
[15:04:12] <RLa> but why reflection breaks it?
[15:04:21] <RLa> oh
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[15:05:53] <paulweb515> RLa: say you're implementing injection via reflection.  The consumer wants to write: "@Inject @Named("id") private String id;"  The injection framework implementers can do this now, they just need to override the access
[15:06:38] <RLa> paulweb515, another (correct) solution would be to use public setter for injection?
[15:07:24] <RLa> anyway
[15:07:36] <RLa> i have security manager not permitting reflection
[15:07:58] <RLa> now, i want to find out why i get reflection error
[15:07:59] <paulweb515> RLa: if that was your only option, yes.  but then the injection framework is placing visibility requirements on the consumer ... they might not want users of their code to be able to set that value, and use private void setId(*) etc
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[15:08:49] <RLa> will i get security exception when i try to use reflection for accessing *public* method?
[15:08:59] <paulweb515> RLa: you're security manager doesn't permit it?  Or you're getting an access error?
[15:09:15] <RLa> or will i get security exception when i try to use *any* reflection at all?
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[15:09:33] <RLa> no, it's permission error
[15:09:55] <selckin> fairly sure you can configure it both ways
[15:10:08] <ernimril> RLa: you should be able to use public methods with reflections without problems
[15:10:23] <RLa> ernimril, that's what i wanted to know
[15:10:27] <paulweb515> RLa: the docs say that security can be configured to prevent *any* reflection or simply prevent access level  changes (i.e. accessing private)
[15:10:31] <ernimril> RLa: for private ones you need to call setAccessible(true) first and that might cause a security exception
[15:10:48] <RLa> paulweb515, got a link for that?
[15:11:08] <RLa> no, i have no intentions to access private fields
[15:11:15] <RLa> or methods
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[15:12:51] <paulweb515> RLa: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/reflection/spec/java-reflection.doc.html
[15:12:58] <paulweb515> security model
[15:14:10] <RLa> paulweb515, thanks
[15:15:02] <cutout> Hi, I want to make a scheduling mechanism for my web applications to run reporting jobs! this needs to be long term jobs and re auccre
[15:15:52] <cutout> is there APIs to do that?
[15:16:03] <ernimril> ~quartz
[15:16:03] <javabot> An open source job scheduling system, jobs can be defined as standard Java components or EJBs.  You find more at http://www.opensymphony.com/quartz/ also see http://is.gd/nHz9 for a core java solution.
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[15:17:12] <cutout> thanks I'll check it :)
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[15:18:21] <jottinger> ernimril: if he's using java ee, ejb timer beans are better
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[15:19:07] <ernimril> jottinger: if you say so, I do not really do jee
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[15:19:26] <ernimril> jottinger: (a few servlets now and then, but that is about it)
[15:19:29] <RLa> there is no source of sun.* packages in jre available?
[15:19:47] <RLa> is that closed source part of java?
[15:20:01] <paulweb515> RLa: maybe in the SDK?  Yes, those are internal implementation classes
[15:20:30] <ernimril> RLa: try the openjdk sources
[15:20:38] <ernimril> RLa: they are not in src.zip
[15:20:56] <RLa> crap, ReflectionManager happens to be in this package
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[15:21:46] <RLa> of course, security stuff must be hidden from eyes
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[15:23:43] <hexmare> morning all
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[15:24:28] <ThJ> I'm wondering what's best... do your own audio mixing, or try to get multiple SourceDataLines...
[15:24:51] <Hexmare> ThJ , I would reccomend doing your own
[15:25:31] <Hexmare> multiple sources = more resources.
[15:25:58] <Hexmare> plues the headache of making sure everything is in sync
[15:26:10] <ThJ> True...
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[15:27:13] <Hexmare> not to mention with the good freeware sound mixing and mastering software out there , diy programmers at home can do audio work relatively easy now
[15:27:15] <ThJ> I'll have to make some sort of wrapper for it that sees when blocks come in and outputs them when all blocks are present for mixing, I guess.
[15:27:29] <ThJ> This is for voice conferencing
[15:27:34] <ThJ> I'm using JSpeex and UDP.
[15:27:44] <Hexmare> oh thats a whole other story
[15:28:04] <Hexmare> I thought you were talking about a static sound library
[15:28:16] <ThJ> Nope, did I say that? ;)
[15:28:48] <Hexmare> < Assumed like an idiot ... first thing I saw in the channel was < ThJ> I'm wondering what's best... do your own audio mixing, or try to get multiple
[15:28:51] <Hexmare>              SourceDataLines...
[15:29:01] <ThJ> Hehe
[15:29:04] <ThJ> Easy to do
[15:29:20] <ThJ> I've got it working at the stage where a test tone from the server ,even with high jitter and packet loss, plays back pretty smooth.
[15:29:35] <Hexmare> ok I will shutup now , before I remove all doubt of my dumbassedness ;)
[15:29:40] <ThJ> And packets may arrive out of order as long as the server hasn't stopped waiting for them (the audio  buffer must be kept full after all)
[15:30:15] <ThJ> Quite an elaborate scheme. You'd think you could use TCP, but it can't do "drop a packet in the middle if we've got the other packets and playback's getting urgent."
[15:30:40] <Hexmare> true
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[15:31:37] <Hexmare> although it can be done
[15:31:55] <Hexmare> TeamSpeak operates on TCP ,
[15:32:00] <Hexmare> and it uses speex
[15:32:14] <ThJ> I guess they simply accept the delay.
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[15:32:46] <Hexmare> Its been a while since I used it
[15:32:59] <Hexmare> My Gaming team uses it
[15:33:11] * Hexmare doesn't game much any more
[15:33:21] <ThJ> Which is nice, never drop a packet, but my programmers will not be used by gamers who have deliberately chosen ISPs with low ping times.
[15:33:27] <ThJ> Uhm
[15:33:30] <Hexmare> LOL
[15:33:31] <ThJ> My PROGRAM will not be used.
[15:34:28] <Hexmare> I see your point , however a lot of the teams members were on 56k dialup ....
[15:34:38] <ThJ> It'll be used by some random 15 year old who likes to draw on their computer, and it's some god-awful DSL line on old copper...
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[15:34:54] <Hexmare> still faster then 56k
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[15:35:05] <ThJ> True, true.
[15:35:42] <Hexmare> are you scratch building this , or are you looking at open source solutions for ideas?
[15:35:44] <ThJ> I'd still take scratchy audio over long delays, hehe
[15:35:55] <ThJ> The voice chat, or the whole thing?
[15:36:01] <Hexmare> voice chat
[15:36:06] <ThJ> This is a feature of a program basically.
[15:36:11] <ThJ> And it's a closed source program, so...
[15:36:33] <Hexmare> ok so your program is closed source
[15:36:41] <ThJ> Well, the system I've got now could be adapted to internal mixing, not a biggie.
[15:36:54] <Hexmare> doesnt mean that you can't get ideas from open source systems
[15:37:01] <ThJ> True, I misread what you said.
[15:37:21] <ThJ> However, I'm no good at reading other people's source code XD
[15:37:28] <Hexmare> LOL
[15:37:31] <Hexmare> I feel you there
[15:37:48] <Hexmare> so many times I look at things and am like WTF were they thinking
[15:37:54] <ThJ> "What the... why...oh...no wait, what's...GAH, 9 files to reach this tiny function?"
[15:38:02] <Hexmare> yup
[15:38:25] <ThJ> "And it wasn't the function I was even looking for, where exactly is the *action* in this program, all I see is formalities?"
[15:38:26] <Hexmare> the company I work for is going through that with their OWN code right now
[15:38:50] <ThJ> I had that experience reading GIMPs source code trying to figure out where on earth it renders brushes...
[15:38:54] <ThJ> Never found it, so I gave up
[15:39:09] <Hexmare> well have you ever used doxygen?
[15:39:18] <ThJ> Nope
[15:39:27] <Hexmare> its pretty slick
[15:39:52] <Hexmare> you feed it the source of a program , and it will map all functions , classes , source etc
[15:40:04] <Hexmare> output to RTF , PDF , HTML , XML
[15:40:04] <ThJ> Ah
[15:40:25] <Hexmare> maps the whole shooting match. If there is documenting comments in the code it will extract them too
[15:40:35] <Hexmare> and it WILL do huge projects
[15:40:47] <RLa> what if there are no comments
[15:41:12] <ThJ> Hehe
[15:41:18] <ThJ> I have to write comments.
[15:41:28] <Hexmare> RLA , then it will simply list the classes, members , function calls and who inherits / calls thems
[15:41:28] <ThJ> I know that if I don't, then I'll be like "Huh?" if I get back to the code later.
[15:41:44] <Hexmare> Comments = maintainable code
[15:41:47] <ThJ> Or, well, the mental effort will be greater.
[15:42:07] <Hexmare> let me rephrase ... GOOD COMMENTS = maintainable code
[15:42:13] <ThJ> I comment every line in some places just because it's not obvious what it does at first glance.
[15:42:23] <CheerBear> :(
[15:42:49] <Hexmare> I like the quote , Comment your code like the person who will maintain it is a homicidal maniac..... who has your home address
[15:43:10] <ThJ> http://pastebin.com/V1XCdgB8 - how's this?
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[15:44:05] <Hexmare> LOL
[15:44:21] <ThJ> It's funny? XD
[15:44:40] <Hexmare> no just laughing cause I see what you were saying
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[15:44:58] <Hexmare> you follow the same rules I do , when in doubt comment
[15:45:27] <ThJ> If a somewhat slow person, like me for instance, can't understand it, comment, yes.
[15:45:27] <ThJ> XD
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[15:49:09] <ThJ> Hexmare: What I think I'll do to that code to support mixing is simply to make a wrapper around a single SourceDataLine that can receive multiple audio streams.
[15:49:54] <ThJ> Hexmare: It'll still have stuff like .available() and .write() but will behave differently, and write() would accept an additional parameter, something like streamId.
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[15:51:13] <ThJ> Might also have to rename the class, VoiceClient will have one instance per incoming stream, after all
[15:51:41] <ThJ> It solves another problem too: gain control.
[15:52:14] <ThJ> If the final mix is gonna clip I'll limit it.
[15:52:26] <Tniffoc> Is there a way to get a procedure pointer in Java? Basically can I have a pointer that points to a method so that I can call arrayList.get(object).pointer()
[15:52:48] <ThJ> No, but you can do a Runnable()
[15:53:00] <ThJ> Usually in Java you wrap single methods in an object to get a "procedure pointer"
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[15:53:50] <ThJ> SomeAbstractClassOrInterface foo = new SomeAbstractClassOrInterface() { methods go here };
[15:53:54] <ThJ> Then you pass that along.
[15:54:46] <Tniffoc> Well I could also do it by a String then use reflection.'
[15:54:50] <Tniffoc> I think I"ll do that.
[15:55:10] <ThJ> If you're doing a callback, you can either do that, or simply implement an interface...
[15:55:21] <ThJ> Reflection? Well, ugh, I suppose.
[15:55:29] <ThJ> Hope you're not doing something that requires speed.
[15:55:42] <jottinger> you can make reflection fast.
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[16:37:48] <sheepz> ~pastebin
[16:37:48] <javabot> http://rifers.org/paste - Paste the final url after you've pasted your stuff there.
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[16:41:22] <sheepz> http://rifers.org/paste/show/542 i'm reading from a file line by line, why does this piece of code include empty or "null" lines?
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[16:42:21] <ernimril> ~~sheepz javadoc BufferedReader.readLine(*)
[16:42:22] <javabot> sheepz: http://is.gd/4MtOA [JDK: java.io.BufferedReader.readLine()]
[16:42:37] <ernimril> sheepz: the file does not contain null lines
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[16:45:09] <sheepz> ok, but shouldn't the while loop terminate if it encounters EOF?
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[16:45:55] <dmlloyd> it does
[16:46:05] <dmlloyd> the question is, what is the line "rows[counter];" supposed to do?
[16:46:09] <dmlloyd> I'm not even sure that compiles
[16:46:11] <ernimril> sheepz: what do you think the null indicates?
[16:46:24] <sheepz> well. i'm trying to save the lines in array of strings
[16:46:32] <dmlloyd> you forgot about the "save" part
[16:46:42] <ernimril> sheepz: _read_ the javadocs javabot gave you, what is the return type of the readLine method?
[16:46:58] <sheepz> a string
[16:47:00] <sheepz> :P
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[16:47:27] <dmlloyd> you actually have to put the string into your array
[16:48:25] <sheepz> well, I'm not really familiar with Java and quick googling didn't get me an append function
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[16:48:45] <dmlloyd> ~~ sheepz arrays
[16:48:45] <javabot> sheepz, arrays is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/arrays.html
[16:49:12] <dmlloyd> arrays are fixed size, and don't contain anything unless you put things in them
[16:49:55] <sheepz> I did this... String[] rows = {};		     rows = new String[30];
[16:50:35] <dmlloyd> the first statement creates an array of length zero and then puts it into rows
[16:50:52] <dmlloyd> the second statement creates an array of length 30 and then replaces the value of rows with a reference to the new array
[16:51:00] <dmlloyd> so the first "= {}" is redundant
[16:51:10] <dmlloyd> so that's an array of 30 nulls
[16:51:22] <sheepz> oh...
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[16:51:54] <kekeke> hi i'm using multiple JRadioButtonMenuItem(string, boolean) as part of a ButtonGroup and i want to have a set of if statements which depend on which button is selected, how would i do this?
[16:51:59] <dmlloyd> the next step is to replace the null values with something useful
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[16:52:08] <sheepz> ok, but would this approach even be appropriate?
[16:52:33] <sheepz> i mean I'm just trying to read line by line and later use string functions on the lines...
[16:52:43] <dmlloyd> it might make more sense to use a List
[16:52:47] <dmlloyd> ~~ sheepz collections
[16:52:47] <javabot> sheepz, The Collections API is available at http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/collections/index.html
[16:52:59] <dmlloyd> because those can grow as items are added.
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[16:53:22] <sheepz> ok, thanks for your help :)
[16:53:33] <dmlloyd> no charge
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[16:54:02] <sly007> Hello, I am in a Thread run() method. How do I call back a method on the main Thread?
[16:54:26] <dmlloyd> methods don't exist on threads
[16:54:29] <dmlloyd> they exist on classes
[16:54:58] <dmlloyd> if you want the main thread to do something, the main thread has to be waiting for things to do
[16:55:54] <dmlloyd> ~~ sly007 jcip
[16:55:54] <javabot> sly007, jcip is Java Concurrency In Practice, a book focused on implementing threaded and concurrent applications in Java.  http://jcip.net/
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[16:56:04] <dmlloyd> and with that, I'm outta here for now
[16:56:08] <sly007> dmlloyd: When my code in run is finished, I want the method of some class to be called in the main thread
[16:56:30] <mrenouf> sly007, is your main thread essentially idle?
[16:56:48] <mrenouf> ie: do you do anything after Thread.start()?
[16:56:58] <sly007> mrenouf: i do something
[16:58:02] <mrenouf> absolute simplest way, in java6+ you can use a volatile boolean to signal the work is done.
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[16:58:07] <kekeke> i'm using multiple JRadioButtonMenuItem(string, boolean) as part of a ButtonGroup and i want to have a set of if statements which depend on which button is selected, how would i do this?
[16:58:26] <ernimril> ~~kekeke repeat
[16:58:26] <javabot> kekeke, Please don't repeat yourself, it annoys people and rarely produces results. Try rephrasing or, failing that, come back in a good while when there are different people here. Meanwhile, google is your friend.
[16:58:28] <mrenouf> sly007, your main thread would check this variable (lets say "isFinished")
[16:58:31] <SEcki> mrenouf: but then you need to check it regularialy, of course
[16:58:37] <ernimril> ~~kekeke if
[16:58:37] <javabot> kekeke, to learn about the if statement, see http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/if.html
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[16:58:52] <kekeke> ernimril: thanks, but i wasn't asking how to form if statements
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[16:59:34] <mrenouf> SEcki, that's why i asked if the main thread is idle. if it does other useful work, the check is ok. otherwise you want to wait() on a lock (or better yet use use conditions from j.u.c)
[17:00:25] <ernimril> kekeke: then consider rewriting your question so that it is clear what you want
[17:00:45] <mrenouf> sly007, see: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp06197.html#2.0
[17:00:57] <SEcki> mrenouf: we are in full agreement I guess, I should have directed it at sly007, sorry (also be aware of things that block the main thread for a while, sly007, so oyu can have arbitary time gaps before the main thread does something)
[17:03:15] <kekeke> ernimril: thanks for the advice, but i think it was clear enough (obviously not for all, though)
[17:04:12] <ernimril> kekeke: how much help did you get? how clear was your question, really?
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[17:05:48] <kekeke> ernimril: not getting help is not equivalent to clear wording, thanks for the advice, again
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[17:12:42] <enav> good morning vietnam
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[17:13:07] <the_birdman> kekeke: register the radiobutton items to the same itemlistener, if event.getsource == buttonA => dosomething
[17:13:42] <kekeke> the_birdman: thanks so much
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[17:19:14] <dob1> in this code http://pastebin.com/Pa8xGbxV , i have the SwingWorker class that set the dialog to not visible in the done() method, but the worker is executed before i set the dialog visible (i have to do that or the worker doesn't start), can happen that it terminates before the dialog is visible?  i think is impossible
[17:19:51] <Copter> jottinger: hire meh !
[17:20:03] <enav> i cant fully understand something here.... RMI-IIOP   is to remote method invocation of another OO Langs?
[17:20:23] <enav> others*
[17:20:48] <the_birdman> dob1: set the dialog visible before work.execute()??
[17:20:53] <mrenouf> I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure RMI is intended for Java->Java only
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[17:21:03] <dob1> the_birdman: the worker doesn't start, is a modal dialog
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[17:21:33] <enav> RMI is java only  but RMI-IIOP  looks to be fr other Java equivalents
[17:21:41] <enav> i mean OO langs
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[17:22:22] <paulweb515> enav: isn't RMI_IIOP the rmi over (something CORBA)?
[17:22:45] <enav> yes
[17:22:47] <paulweb515> enav: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMI-IIOP
[17:23:02] <enav> i came from that site
[17:23:13] <enav>  thanks anyway
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[17:23:46] <paulweb515> enav: it's a java link into CORBA (with some caveats)
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[17:28:45] <LadySerena> I have but one quick question: In my base class I have "protected ServiceBase() { this.init(); }" and I was wondering if another class (which extends ServiceBase) will use that as its constructor, or do I need to write a new protected constructor with the same this.init(); in it?
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[17:32:08] <ernimril> LadySerena: if you do not explicitly call a constructor a call to the super() constructor will be added automatically
[17:32:28] <ernimril> LadySerena: do you provide any other constructors to Base?
[17:32:47] <LadySerena> no, I don't, its just that one constructor
[17:33:09] <ernimril> LadySerena: then the subclasses have to use that constructor
[17:33:18] <LadySerena> awesome!
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[17:33:27] * LadySerena hugs ernimril
[17:33:58] <ernimril> LadySerena: do you plan on overriding init() in subclasses? (it is a bad idea to do so)
[17:34:14] <LadySerena> no, not with my app
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[17:35:43] <LadySerena> I have two base classes - one for modules (ModuleBase) and one for services (ServiceBase), both get their init() from another class called BaseConfigurator which does all the reflection magic in loading and setting configuration settings
[17:36:12] <LadySerena> very bad idea to override init() in my app's classes
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[17:44:00] <jottinger> Copter: ?
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[17:50:51] * jottinger hands LadySerena @PostConstruct
[17:51:14] <LadySerena> hmm, is this a tasty new annotation?
[17:51:18] <jottinger> no.
[17:51:27] <LadySerena> is it chocolate?
[17:51:31] <jottinger> nope.
[17:51:37] <LadySerena> is it catnip?
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[17:52:15] * LadySerena googles
[17:52:37] <jottinger> LadySerena: are you using spring or anything like it?
[17:52:45] <LadySerena> no, I'm not
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[17:53:15] <jottinger> so you're using new()?
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[17:53:21] <jottinger> i.e., the constructor?
[17:53:25] <LadySerena> well, kinda
[17:53:36] <jottinger> hmm, thought that was a yes/no question
[17:53:48] <LadySerena> all the services and modules in my app are single-instance classes
[17:54:09] <jottinger> standalone app, I guess
[17:54:19] <LadySerena> like for the Session service: Session s = Session.getInstance();
[17:54:49] <yshavit> "singleton" is the lingo
[17:54:53] <LadySerena> ohs
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[17:55:04] <LadySerena> in PHP they're just called "global classes"
[17:55:13] <dmlloyd> ~php
[17:55:13] <jottinger> so this is a standalone app?
[17:55:14] <javabot> dmlloyd, php is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
[17:55:25] <LadySerena> LAWL!
[17:55:34] <LadySerena> no, its a webapp
[17:55:46] <jottinger> then why the hell are you pretending to use singletons?
[17:55:49] <jottinger> they're not, you know
[17:56:07] <jottinger> what container are you using?
[17:56:11] <LadySerena> GlassFish
[17:56:18] <jottinger> yeesh, then use EJBs
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[17:57:39] <LadySerena> I'm not familiar with EJBs and I'm afraid if I try that tech I'll break something really badly
[17:57:55] <LadySerena> which is almost always the case when I try new toys
[17:58:32] <yshavit> LadySerena: depending on how much time you have, breaking something really badly is often a great way to learn how to use it
[17:58:38] <yshavit> Sounds very zen, right?
[17:58:43] <LadySerena> ya
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[18:01:32] <LadySerena> okay, so what advantages do EJBs offer over the standard webapp?
[18:01:49] <jottinger> you know that stupid Service service=Service.getInstance() thing you're doing?
[18:01:57] <LadySerena> ya
[18:02:10] <jottinger> it goes away.
[18:02:34] <LadySerena> o.o
[18:02:59] <yshavit> jottinger: are EJBs better than Swing, in your experience? I've never worked with EJB and hardly with Spring, so I'm not trying to pick a fight, just asking. :)
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[18:03:13] <jottinger> yshavit: well, I often DO find that oranges are better than rubber tires.
[18:03:13] <yshavit> s/Swing/Spring/;
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[18:03:39] <jottinger> yshavit: and it really depends.
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[18:04:08] <Rednaxela> Hmm, quick question: I know one can determine java_home from inside java (via system properties), but is there any way to find the full path to the jvm executable? (i.e. whether it's java, or java.exe, or javaw
[18:04:12] <yshavit> jottinger: oranges/tires was for Swing, right?
[18:04:17] <jottinger> yes
[18:04:20] <yshavit> :)
[18:06:32] <AMcBain> Well, the greenhouse here on campus has an orange tree with some exquisit sour oranges.
[18:06:50] <AMcBain> They're quite nice, but it's funny to give somone a piece of one and watch the face they make :)
[18:07:13] <ernimril> AMcBain: why do they make a face for a sour orange?
[18:07:26] <AMcBain> for? no ... after eating a piece! ;)
[18:07:41] <AMcBain> Normal oranges aren't sour, so they don't expect it :)
[18:07:55] * pr3d4k4t trolls jottinger.
[18:08:21] <ernimril> AMcBain: I would find it a tasty surprise, but then I really like lemons :-)
[18:08:28] <AMcBain> ernimril, haha
[18:08:33] <pr3d4k4t> jottinger: array('l'); if I want a shorter initialization time then I use the generator you saw.  It's still a lot smaller than the Java code, now using arrays.
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[18:54:07] <RLa> how do i create enum value from enum class?
[18:54:37] <RLa> Class<?> clazz
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[18:55:12] <RLa> Enum.valueOf(clazz, name) <- gives type error
[18:56:16] <ernimril> RLa: uh?
[18:56:29] <ernimril> RLa: what do you want to do? YourEnum.valueOf(String)?
[18:56:50] <RLa> i need to create that in custom serialization thing
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[18:57:22] <selckin> clazz.isEnum is true?
[18:57:25] <RLa> yes
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[18:57:54] <RLa> clazz is the parameter type of a known setter method
[18:57:55] <selckin> what error?
[18:58:24] <RLa> Bound mismatch: The generic method valueOf(Class<T>, String) of type Enum<E> is not applicable for the arguments (Class<capture#2-of ?>, String). The inferred type capture#2-of ? is not a valid substitute for the bounded parameter <T extends Enum<T>>
[18:58:55] <selckin> oh compile error
[18:58:58] <selckin> heh
[18:59:11] <RLa> so i think clazz should be Class<T extends Enum<T>>
[18:59:24] <selckin> just cast it
[18:59:25] <RLa> but i have no value for T?
[18:59:35] <RLa> wait
[19:00:51] <selckin> is (clazz.isEnum()) { Class<Enum<?>> enum = (Class<Enum<?>)clazz;
[19:01:22] <ernimril> RLa: I still fail to see what you are really trying to do, using reflection and serialization makes me suspect that you are doing something silly
[19:01:36] <selckin> ^ probably
[19:01:37] <RLa> ernimril, do you know gson?
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[19:01:58] <RLa> i accesses values through fields (including private)
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[19:02:15] <ernimril> RLa: no I do not, but it seems like another json lib
[19:02:15] <RLa> i extend it to access values through public getters/setters
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[19:02:57] <selckin> why?
[19:03:05] <RLa> every json lib i tried wants to set all members accessible (defeats language access modifiers)
[19:03:19] <RLa> (even when it's not needed)
[19:03:47] <RLa> but that action of setting everything accessible triggers security error in my environment
[19:05:24] <RLa> so i just avoid it and access values though public getters/setters which do not need to defeat language access modifiers
[19:06:38] <flfuf> Hi, I'm practicing inheritance, and I'm tyring to make a program that will show a menu (in DOS, i'm a noob) with the switch statement. Asking which of the following operations you want to do (Calculate factorials, divisions, and some other stuff). I'm doing all the factorials code and sums and stuff in separate files and classes of course since it's inheritance what I'm trying to practice. And what I don't know how to do, is, how once that I pick an option, get
[19:06:43] <_kmh_> RLa : not quite
[19:06:57] <RLa> _kmh_, what?
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[19:07:43] <_kmh_> RLa: i mean getters/setters provide more than java's modifiers
[19:07:55] <selckin> i think json-lib can do the setter thing
[19:08:04] <selckin> but i'd fix my enviroment :/
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[19:09:24] <RLa> jackson json libs can do getter/setter too but tries to set everything accessible too
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[19:10:45] <RLa> selckin, Bound mismatch: The generic method valueOf(Class<T>, String) of type Enum<E> is not applicable for the arguments (Class<Enum<?>>, String). The inferred type Enum<?> is not a valid substitute for the bounded parameter <T extends Enum<T>>
[19:11:13] <selckin> Class<? extends Enum<?>>
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[19:11:54] <RLa> Bound mismatch: The generic method valueOf(Class<T>, String) of type Enum<E> is not applicable for the arguments (Class<capture#5-of ? extends Enum<?>>, String). The inferred type capture#5-of ? extends Enum<?> is not a valid substitute for the bounded parameter <T extends Enum<T>>
[19:12:00] <tiemonster> ~pastebin
[19:12:01] <javabot> http://pastie.org - Paste the final url after you've pasted your stuff there.
[19:12:09] <selckin> it works
[19:12:32] <RLa> hm
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[19:13:07] <tiemonster> Am I using ImageIcon wrong? http://pastie.org/869232
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[19:14:18] <ernimril> tiemonster: seems correct
[19:14:31] <ernimril> tiemonster: but hard to say if you use the correct resource
[19:15:11] <tiemonster> I did java.net.URL imgURL = getClass().getResource("images/acespades.png"); and it returned not null
[19:16:06] <tiemonster> ah
[19:16:18] <tiemonster> Eclipse separates bin and src
[19:16:27] <tiemonster> let me copy the images over and see if that works
[19:17:29] <ernimril> tiemonster: start using a build system that _you_ control, do not rely on the ide to build your apps (but feel free to use ant/maven intergration in your ide)
[19:17:48] <tiemonster> I don't even know that that means
[19:18:05] <ernimril> tiemonster: use a build system like ant/maven/make
[19:19:02] <tiemonster> ernimril: there's a setting when you create a project to build the classes in place, or in a separate directory. I never had a reason to build them in place before now.
[19:19:04] <RLa> Enum.valueOf((Class<Enum>) clazz <- that was it!
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[19:20:14] <ernimril> tiemonster: so what do you do when you want to try to use other tools than your current ide?
[19:20:33] <ernimril> tiemonster: or if a friend want to help you with your project? do you force that friend to use eclipse?
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[19:20:58] <ernimril> tiemonster: what do you do when you want to set up a continous intergration server? do you want to run eclipse on that CI server?
[19:20:58] <tiemonster> ernimril: I'm like 2 months into java - a first year CS student. Let me crawl before I walk. ;-)
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[19:21:42] <ernimril> tiemonster: you really should do 1) learn basic java without any ide, 2) learn some basic build system 3) try ide:s and see if they work well for you
[19:22:03] <ernimril> tiemonster: trying to go for 3 directly tends to give people lots of problems
[19:22:56] <RLa> i would argue that
[19:22:59] <nuvolari> on the topic of "basic build system"... I don't get maven :/
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[19:23:17] <tiemonster> ernimril: we did java for a while in notepad. I like Eclipse a lot better then that, for obvious reasons. I use Netbeans for other languages, but at this point in my learning I need to stick to one environment and learn java first.
[19:23:19] <RLa> you can use ant which is simpler but also does less
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[19:23:38] <BadQuanta> Is there an efficent way to initailze a Hash with data in java other than doing that within the constructor or a static block?
[19:23:48] <ernimril> tiemonster: so you try to do 1, 3 instead of 1, 2, 3
[19:24:02] <ernimril> BadQuanta: efficient?
[19:24:16] <RLa> BadQuanta, anonymous constructor block?
[19:24:18] <BadQuanta> Something similar to: Hashtable<String, Integer> bla = new Hashtable("One"=>new Integer(1));  <-- Something like that.
[19:24:21] <nuvolari> :/ When I studied, they did a poor job at number 2, that's why I struggle now
[19:24:22] <tiemonster> ernimril: we haven't learned *any* build system yet
[19:24:27] <ernimril> BadQuanta: there is no other one-line trick than the anonymous constructor block
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[19:24:48] <BadQuanta> ernimril: Ok..  I thought that was the case.
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[19:25:04] <ernimril> tiemonster: well, you are on irc, that means you currently have lots of spare time. Use google and find a tutorial for ant or maven
[19:25:10] <yshavit> I would actually argue that for starting out Java, you don't really need to understand build tools that well. Probably not dealing with a whole lot of 3rd party dependencies, different projects, etc.
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[19:25:18] <ernimril> tiemonster: feel free to try make or scons or ... if you prefer
[19:25:21] <tiemonster> ernimril: lol. spare time.
[19:25:25] <BadQuanta> ernimril: So if I have a public static Hashtable I should just initialize it in a static {} block?
[19:25:34] <mcastro> Hi all.
[19:25:46] <the_birdman> ~~mcastro yo
[19:25:46] <javabot> mcastro, http://tinyurl.com/lq74k3
[19:25:52] <tiemonster> ernimril: I'm on IRC because I need help. I'm a father, a part-time student, and I work full time.
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[19:26:12] <ernimril> BadQuanta: I would probably start by making it not static and then I would just init it with as many "htab.put(foo, bar)" as needed
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[19:26:52] <mcastro> I have a quick quesiton :) What certification is worthy for JAVA (J2EE etc)?
[19:26:55] <ernimril> tiemonster: learning the basics of a build system does not take long
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[19:27:08] <tiemonster> ernimril: hey! that works! thanks for getting me on the right track. I even appreciate your alternate view of proper Java pedagogy.
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[19:27:17] <mcastro> the_birdman: hey
[19:27:23] <ernimril> tiemonster: if you are reasonably smart you can probably get a working build.xml in 15 minutes
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[19:27:35] <ernimril> mcastro: none
[19:27:37] <tiemonster> ernimril: for maknig jars, I suppose?
[19:27:40] <tiemonster> *making
[19:27:45] <ernimril> tiemonster: yes
[19:28:03] <ernimril> tiemonster: you can do more than that, but then you probably need to spend a few more minutes
[19:28:10] <mcastro> ernimril: OK, I see. Sun one was valuable?
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[19:28:23] <tiemonster> ernimril: we haven't even covered jars yet. I am only aware of them because of my exposure to Pentaho.
[19:28:26] <tazle> possibly quite a few more minutes, depending on what exactly you want to accomplish
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[19:28:46] <yshavit> tiemonster: jars are pretty simple in concept. They're zips of class files.
[19:28:48] <mcastro> Are there any certification or training program that means something in the professional arena?
[19:28:49] <yshavit> and resources.
[19:28:59] <Hydrant> is there a sane way to take some object I'm given and make a copy of it
[19:29:09] <tiemonster> ernimril: when we get that far in the coursework, I'll have to drop in to get the "real story" ;-D
[19:29:13] <ernimril> mcastro: if you apply for a job where I will read your resume and I see that you have lots of certs I will think "ok, this guy/gal takes certs all the time instead of doing any real work"
[19:29:16] <BadQuanta> ernimril: Its going to contain some formatting information, I'd like the format to be customizeable, but consistant between all instances..  Would you still set it up that way?
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[19:29:53] <ernimril> BadQuanta: yes, I really do not like static state
[19:30:02] <mcastro> ernimril: :) I see your point. I have some years of experience, and I am IDLE now, so I was thinking about investing some time in it.
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[19:30:07] <BadQuanta> ernimril: Hmm.. Ok. :)
[19:30:12] <srm> ~~Hydrant clone
[19:30:12] <javabot> Hydrant, Making deep copies of objects: http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2001/tt0410.html#making  Cloning Objects: http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2001/tt0306.html#cloning  Making defensive copies of objects: http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2001/tt0904.html#tip1 also see: http://mindprod.com/jgloss/clone.html
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[19:30:20] <mcastro> ernimril:  Any idea on where to invest my time?
[19:30:24] <ernimril> BadQuanta: I have had too much problems where I have programs and want to run several instances in the same jvm
[19:30:44] <BadQuanta> ernimril: If thats best practice, I'll move the format to the container object and it'll just apply it to all sub objects.
[19:30:44] <yshavit> srm, javabot: lots of 404s there....
[19:30:47] <mcastro> ernimril: I have 10 years of experience, mainly in Java, SOA and AJAX.
[19:30:51] <srm> *doh*
[19:30:58] <yshavit> blame Oracle.
[19:31:00] <ernimril> BadQuanta: sure, _I_ know enough of classloaders to actually be able to handle it if I need to, but it is better if I can just run the extra instances directly
[19:31:07] <srm> *damn you oracle!*
[19:31:22] <srm> Hydrant, you get the idea...
[19:31:40] <ernimril> mcastro: ok
[19:32:05] <ernimril> mcastro: I would suggest that you find some project (possibly some open source one if you are currently not employed)
[19:32:15] <Hydrant> srm: the first link doesn't exist
[19:32:27] <Hydrant> srm: or the second
[19:32:36] <Hydrant> or third
[19:32:45] <yshavit> Hm, you know, you can read all you want about Java syntax, threading, construction patterns... but they never teach you how to efficiently write Java with a cat sitting on your keyboard. Hrmph.
[19:32:50] <ernimril> mcastro: sure, you can do certification, if you have one or two courses/certs on your resume and 10+ years of work I do not think it will look bad
[19:32:54] <mcastro> ernimril: Yeah, I thought of that (joining an open source project)
[19:32:54] <srm> so what, there's enough plain text in javabot's answer to get you on track.
[19:33:01] <srm> @Hydrant
[19:33:10] <mcastro> ernimril: I am lost about which certification is good.
[19:33:26] <mcastro> ernimril: I have seen very bad comments on certs
[19:33:34] <ernimril> mcastro: I just do not do them, so I do not really know
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[19:34:02] <Hydrant> srm: well... other than overcomplicated / silly ways of doing copies... is there no standard sane way to just make a simple copy without resorting to serialization or other dumb tricks
[19:34:03] <ernimril> mcastro: I value real experience more (and it seems like a lot of other people who hire in here do to)
[19:34:11] <mcastro> ernimril: Apart sun's one can you remember another one? (BTW thanks for all the great feedback)
[19:34:16] <srm> Hydrant: what is silly in your terms?
[19:34:28] <srm> Hydrant: and what is a simple copy?
[19:34:29] <Hydrant> srm: serialization... the fact clone is protected
[19:34:34] <Hydrant> srm: byte-wise copy
[19:34:35] <SeriousWorm> http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2001/tt0410.html#making gives 404 ! update ~close
[19:34:37] <SeriousWorm> clone*
[19:34:50] <darrend> anyone recommend a very fast way to update an XML doc?  I need to add a new element to an existing JMS XML payload.  This will need to happen circa 500 times per second
[19:34:53] <yshavit> Hydrant: how many layers down are you copying, for instance? There's really not a simple definition.
[19:34:53] <SeriousWorm> http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2001/tt0904.html#tip1 also 404 ..
[19:34:56] <Lone_Rifle> default clone is shallow?
[19:35:31] <Hydrant> it's just a simple plain old object... I'm not trying to copy some base class of some crazy class tree
[19:35:37] * nuvolari gives maven another try and RTFM
[19:35:53] <ernimril> darrend: how big is the xml?
[19:35:57] <yshavit> Hydrant: If I have a class Foo that has a field which is a List<Bar>, does a copy of Foo contain the same reference to the original list? Or does it contain a new List with the same objects? And if the latter, is it a list of the same references, or copies? Etc etc etc.
[19:36:13] <ernimril> ~~darrend xml parsin
[19:36:13] <javabot> darrend, I have no idea what xml parsin is.
[19:36:14] <ernimril> ~~darrend xml parsing
[19:36:14] <javabot> darrend, xml parsing is best accomplished with one of - XOM @ http://www.xom.nu/ - JAXB @ http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxb/ - JDOM @ http://www.jdom.org/ - mox @ http://bit.ly/6Z15WF - JAXP (including StAX as well as the legacy SAX and DOM) @ https://jaxp.dev.java.net/
[19:36:30] <the_birdman> ~dom4j
[19:36:30] <javabot> the_birdman, dom4j is an easy to use, open source library for working with XML, XPath and XSLT on the Java platform using the Java Collections Framework and with full support for DOM, SAX and JAXP. see the following for more information: http://dom4j.sourceforge.net/
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[19:36:56] <Hydrant> yshavit: well... if you do a byte-wise copy of just the object... then it's the same list
[19:37:19] <darrend> ernimril: none of those are likely to be fast enough.  Anything based on DOM will probably fail on speed and memory requirements.
[19:37:33] <darrend> that rules out JDOM, DOM4J, W3C I think
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[19:37:59] <yshavit> Hydrant: My point was, the definition of "copy" isn't actually so simple. Anyway, if you want what I think you want, it's not that hard to just create a new object and copy over its references.
[19:38:06] <ernimril> darrend: 500 times per second on what type of hardware? on a simple server you normally have 4-16 cores nowdays so that gives you 8-32 millis per document
[19:38:12] <yshavit> Hydrant: You could even use reflection to do it. :)
[19:38:28] <darrend> ernimril: 500 times per second per core
[19:38:45] <ernimril> darrend: hmm, that sounds reasonably busy.. :-)
[19:38:49] <darrend> (I've already factored that in :) )
[19:38:56] <ernimril> darrend: how big is the xml?
[19:39:01] <Hydrant> yshavit: I'm well aware of copying issues... it's Java that I'm not aware of
[19:39:20] <darrend> ernimril: not big - between 0.5kb and 1kb
[19:39:31] <ernimril> darrend: oh, that is not very big...
[19:39:37] <mcastro> What is kind in vogue now in Java?
[19:39:44] <darrend> ernimril: no, but there are lots of 'em
[19:40:19] <yshavit> Hydrant: okay. So, overriding clone() is probably your best bet.
[19:40:20] <ernimril> darrend: If I needed to do such things silly fast I might consider just doing something like "find the X:th <, grab the substring from the start to that, add the extra content and then the substring from that part"
[19:40:46] <ernimril> darrend: not doing any xml at all, it might be a bit fragile, depending on the xml content, but it will be about as fast as you can get it
[19:41:12] <yshavit> Hydrant: Actually with a very simple shallow copy, don't even need to override. Just implement Cloneable
[19:41:14] <darrend> ernimril: mmm.. I had wondered.  There is also vtd-xml (that I've never used but seems to claim to do similar sorts of processing)
[19:41:19] <ernimril> darrend: but please note that this is optimizing for speed at the cost of stability (if the xml changes)
[19:41:25] <darrend> ernimril: yep
[19:41:27] <tazle> darrend: and if you feel bad about that, stax with woodstox was the fastest way I could find of munging some Openstreemap data
[19:41:49] <darrend> tazle: I'll take a look at those, thanks
[19:41:54] <Hydrant> yshavit: implement Cloneable... funny that you have to do that... I'll take a look
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[19:43:00] <yshavit> Hydrant: It's a bit odd, yeah. But Cloneable is just a tag interface that tells Object.clone() that it should do a field-to-field copy
[19:43:13] <Hydrant> yshavit: and I get back to the problem that .clone() is protected
[19:43:26] * Hydrant really doesn't like Java... and wants to go back to C++ very badly
[19:43:36] <yshavit> Hydrant: yeah, so you override it to make it public. @Override public Object clone() { return super.clone(); }
[19:44:00] <Hydrant> yshavit: didn't know I can override to change protections
[19:44:06] <ernimril> yshavit: Object.clone does not do a field-to-field copy it does a memory copy
[19:44:18] <yshavit> Hydrant: yeah, Override can always increase visibility
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[19:44:55] <yshavit> ernimril: Hrm? Java's docs specify "A class implements the Cloneable interface to indicate to the Object.clone() method that it is legal for that method to make a field-for-field copy of instances of that class."
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[19:45:54] <IvoryZion> And unfortunately, clone() is protected...
[19:45:56] <ernimril> yshavit: the end result is the same
[19:46:09] <yshavit> Hydrant: it took me a good long while to not say things like your /me, too :)
[19:46:40] <Hydrant> yshavit: and you survived?
[19:47:25] <yshavit> Hydrant: I did. Just, a word of advice... find the part of your brain that knows C++ templates, and lobotomize it. I *still* haven't gotten over how inferior Java generics are. :-P
[19:47:32] * yshavit dons asbestos suit.
[19:48:19] <Hydrant> yshavit: yah... going from C++ expert, doing TMP... to trying to figure out how the f*ck you just copy an object is pretty crazy
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[19:49:45] <ernimril> Hydrant: if you want to copy objects you probably should just implement a copy constructor instead of trying to use clone
[19:49:59] <SeriousWorm> ~copy constructor++
[19:49:59] <javabot> SeriousWorm, I have no idea what copy constructor++ is.
[19:50:04] <ernimril> Hydrant: or maybe even go for immutable objects and just share them
[19:50:04] <SeriousWorm> ~copyConstructor++
[19:50:05] <javabot> copyconstructor has a karma level of 1, SeriousWorm
[19:50:07] <Hydrant> ernimril: are copy constructors actually part of java... or just some convention
[19:50:16] <SeriousWorm> convention
[19:50:22] <Hydrant> haha
[19:50:27] <ernimril> Hydrant: you have to implement them yourself
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[19:50:57] <LadySerena> is it possible for the Properties class to return arrays?
[19:51:09] <Hydrant> maybe making the stupid thing immutable is the way to go
[19:51:15] <Hydrant> you just mark everything as final ?
[19:51:38] <Hydrant> or do I implement ImmutableObject
[19:51:47] <yshavit> Hydrant: there's no "const", as you probably know... so yeah, everything as final, but also, hide any reference that itself might be mutable.
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[19:51:56] <ernimril> Hydrant: you mark instance variables as final and make sure that they are immutable as well
[19:52:19] <Hydrant> yshavit: ok... so I'm returning a date object which isn't immutable... so I gotta descend into there and make it immutable?
[19:52:29] * Hydrant thinks this is overly compllicated
[19:52:43] <yshavit> Hydrant: that, or return a copy of the Date() via getDate
[19:52:51] <Hydrant> yshavit: it's actually QDate
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[19:53:11] <yshavit> Hydrant: well, same concept. Make it immutable, or return a copy of it...
[19:53:40] <yshavit> Hydrant: I agree it's not very clean, but then, C++'s const has its own issues in practice
[19:53:47] <Hydrant> yshavit: if I mark it as final... the reference is immutable or the whole object
[19:53:55] <yshavit> Hydrant: just the reference
[19:54:08] <Hydrant> yshavit: which means someone can take it.. and make changes if they want
[19:54:18] <yshavit> final Foo foo is like const Foo* foo
[19:54:27] <Rednaxela> Which is why you make it immutable or return a copy
[19:54:58] <danielCraig> ~pastebin
[19:54:58] <javabot> http://rifers.org/paste - Paste the final url after you've pasted your stuff there.
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[19:55:09] <yshavit> Hydrant: yeah, there's no equivalent of Foo * const foo
[19:55:19] <Hydrant> yshavit: that's what I was thinking
[19:55:27] <Hydrant> yshavit: so const-correctness is not a concept that's valid in Java
[19:55:32] <yshavit> Hydrant: right
[19:55:43] <Hydrant> yshavit: haha
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[19:56:11] <Rednaxela> It can happen by conventions of course, just not language-enforced
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[19:56:22] <yshavit> Hydrant: but again, from my experience (which is admittedly pretty low), const correctness has its own issues
[19:56:22] <Hydrant> I see
[19:56:46] <Hydrant> yshavit: not that I've ever seen... but who knows
[19:56:49] <yshavit> In that it's contagious and all, so if you're using a library that hasn't done it right, now you can't do it right either.
[19:57:04] <Hydrant> yshavit: that's on purpose... and const_cast<> takes care of that issue for ya
[19:57:20] <Hydrant> yshavit: which is only there for working with libs that don't use const correctness
[19:57:28] <yshavit> Hydrant: true (on both regards).
[19:57:31] <sly007> in one of my methods (actually, the main one), I have just one line which is "new Handler();" - Do I have a design problem here? Is it common to have some instance not even stored to a variable?
[19:58:30] <yshavit> Hydrant: there are definitely things about C++ I miss in Java. Again, if you haven't gotten into Java generics yet, you're in for a reaaaal treat.
[19:58:38] <yshavit> (sarcastic)
[19:58:54] <Hydrant> yshavit: the problem in the project I'm working on here (for a course) is that a couple people I'm working with aren't so bright (random groups suck)... and literally take any stupid shortcut and destroy everything... and so I know in C++ exactly how to insulate my work from dumb people
[19:58:58] * Rednaxela coughs something about type erasure
[19:59:03] <yshavit> sly007: hard to say 100% of the time, but it's often a code smell, yeah.
[19:59:06] <danielCraig> http://rifers.org/paste/show/543 why is i=1 and not 4?
[19:59:28] <Hydrant> yshavit: I'm having a really hard time implementing things as I know how to... no friendship so I have to expose a constructor to them and they'll make dumb uses of it
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[19:59:38] <sly007> Handler is a class which implements Runnable and create and start its private thread
[19:59:46] <sly007> which result I don't care
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[19:59:54] <Gracenotes> danielCraig: read the docs for what ^ means
[19:59:58] <sly007> that's why I have this line "new Handler();"
[20:00:04] <ernimril> danielCraig: single line match/multi line match
[20:00:05] <Hydrant> yshavit: there are only 2 things I wish C++ had from Java... the byte type... and something else I forget about
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[20:00:13] <Hydrant> yshavit: not having destructors also made me crazy
[20:00:23] <sly007> I wonder if there's a design flaw
[20:00:23] <ernimril> sly007: starting threads from the constructor is generally bad
[20:00:24] <Gracenotes> it's not as if all regex implementations to the same thing.. it's possible to turn on multiline mode though. again, docs.
[20:00:26] <yshavit> Hydrant: destructors don't really make sense in a GC world
[20:00:31] <danielCraig> Gracenotes: " Boundary Matchers                 ^           The beginning of a line"
[20:00:34] <Gracenotes> *do the same thing, that is
[20:00:53] <sly007> ernimril: why?
[20:00:54] <yshavit> sly007: why not just do it via a static method?
[20:01:08] <Gracenotes> danielCraig: "By default, the regular expressions ^ and $ ignore line terminators and only match at the beginning and the end, respectively, of the entire input sequence."
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[20:01:14] <sly007> yshavit: do what?
[20:01:22] <yshavit> sly007: do you know about static methods?
[20:01:23] <ernimril> sly007: you publish a reference to a non-fully-built object to some other class
[20:01:34] <ernimril> sly007: s/class$/thread/
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[20:01:48] <ernimril> ~~sly007 jcip
[20:01:48] <javabot> sly007, jcip is Java Concurrency In Practice, a book focused on implementing threaded and concurrent applications in Java.  http://jcip.net/
[20:01:56] <danielCraig> Gracenotes: thanks
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[20:02:00] <ernimril> sly007: that book tells you all you need to know about it
[20:02:05] <yshavit> ~ernimril++
[20:02:05] <javabot> ernimril has a karma level of 168, yshavit
[20:02:14] <yshavit> great book
[20:02:40] <Gracenotes> danielCraig: hm, looking at it, that section is mostly quick descriptions. anyhow, Pattern.compile(str, MULTILINE)'ll do it. And you can OR together other states, like CASE_INSENSITIVE
[20:02:43] <ernimril> it is a very good book
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[20:03:14] <ernimril> sly007: so do a "new Handler().start()" instead if you really want that
[20:03:32] <sly007> yshavit: yes I do know about static methods
[20:03:40] <ernimril> sly007: if you ever allow subclasses of your handler, then consider what will happen when you call "new SubClassOfHandler()"
[20:03:42] <Gracenotes> I wonder if Pattern.compile used EnumSet for its flags.
[20:03:55] <ernimril> Gracenotes: unpack src.zip and find out
[20:04:07] <Gracenotes> ernimril: it doesn't. But if it did.. it might be painful.
[20:04:31] <Gracenotes> I still like bitmasks over EnumSets, mostly.
[20:04:32] <yshavit> sly007: actually the static methods aren't as valid if you're spinning off a new thread, sorry. :) I thought Handler was setting some other things and then returning back.
[20:05:08] <yshavit> sly007: You can still do the new Handler().start() pattern via a static method of course, it's just not as necessary.
[20:05:24] <ernimril> Gracenotes: EnumSet is a bitmask
[20:05:39] <Gracenotes> yeah, a hell of a wrapper around one
[20:06:35] <sly007> What style is recommended ? implementint a Runnable r and then Thread(r) it, or subclassing Thread?
[20:06:42] <Gracenotes> I think it's mostly using the EnumSet creation syntax /every/ /single/ /time/ I wanted a regex that would get to me.
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[20:07:01] <ernimril> sly007: implement Runnable and pass it to a thread pool
[20:07:03] <SeriousWorm> sly007: the first
[20:07:04] <SeriousWorm> yeah.
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[20:10:34] <enav> SeriousWorm  check this http://is.gd/aCLM8
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[20:13:17] <yshavit> I gotta make like an f-22 and jet. cya all!
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[20:14:58] <RLa> nice, my public setter/getter to json serializer works well
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[20:19:09] <RowCol> hello
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[20:20:49] <RowCol> I have some elements (strings) in a vector, for example the vector is:  |"elem1"|"elem2"|"elem3"|   I want to have a string containing "elem1;elem2;elem3"
[20:20:55] <RowCol> how can I do ?
[20:21:17] <ernimril> RowCol: a StringBuilder and a loop
[20:22:17] <EnderMB> I don't mean to be rude, but if you look for information on comma-delimited strings on google you'll probably find some worthwhile code
[20:22:34] * Lone_Rifle suggests the FizzBuzz test
[20:22:44] <RowCol> there are no method which is the opposite of split ? split create an array from a String
[20:22:57] <ernimril> RowCol: not in the standard api, no
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[20:23:05] <RowCol> ok
[20:23:07] <RowCol> thanks
[20:23:08] <ernimril> RowCol: there is such a method in many 3:rd party libs though
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[20:25:41] <RLa> commons-lang StringUtils should have it
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[20:30:23] <EnderMB> Does anyone here know of any good Java resources for Genetic Algorithms or Neural Networks? I am working on a maze solving application and there isn't much help out there from what I've found
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[20:31:25] <ernimril> ~jgap
[20:31:26] <javabot> ernimril, I have no idea what jgap is.
[20:31:46] <RLa> EnderMB, see weka
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[20:32:24] <flfuf> Hi, I'm trying to multiply two numbers. One is a constant, and the other is inputed by keyboard using the java scanner. However, I get errors saying that they cannot be multiplied because one is an int, and the other is a java.util.scanner type.
[20:32:37] <flfuf> What am I doing wrong?
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[20:33:06] <RLa> you are trying to multiply wrong things
[20:33:37] <RLa> you should use a method on scanner that would return you that scanned int
[20:35:49] <EnderMB> RLa: I've taken a look at Weka, but as far as I can see it doesn't cover any genetic algorithms
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[20:36:57] <RLa> hm, how would you use genetic algorithms for maze solving anyway?
[20:37:37] <RLa> does you agent has some knowledge about maze other that visited paths available?
[20:37:45] <EnderMB> I create an initial population of genes (1 to 0) and run bitwise mutation, elitism and evolve their populations to find the optimum solution
[20:37:54] <RLa> uh oh
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[20:38:45] <EnderMB> I've got it running through a maze so far, using nearby walls to increment the fitness of the agent
[20:38:57] <EnderMB> I just need to "plug in" my GA to the maze and agent and have it run itself
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[20:39:20] <EnderMB> If I could turn the int array of genes into boolean values easily it might be a bit easier
[20:39:54] <EnderMB> At the moment I have a GA that uses the gene values to define fitness and an agent and maze that has an array of boolean values set as rules
[20:40:17] <Furyhunter> flfuf, constInt*scanner.nextInt();
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[20:42:41] <danielCraig> what is the easiest method to recive the linecount of a String?
[20:43:20] <danielCraig> string.split("\n").length  ?
[20:43:50] <Furyhunter> I'd assume so.
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[20:46:34] <ernimril> danielCraig: it depends on what your definition of line is
[20:47:17] <danielCraig> like  rows in a textarea
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[20:52:44] <groton> to compare a long and a Long do i need to use the Long.longValue() method?
[20:53:17] <_W_> no
[20:53:20] <_W_> ~autoboxing
[20:53:21] <javabot> _W_, autoboxing is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/autoboxing.html
[20:53:41] <groton> _W_, thanks, i am reading it now :)
[20:53:42] <_W_> you may want to, if you want to be extra super clear
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[20:54:27] <white_gecko> hello
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[20:54:35] <enav> hi
[20:55:02] <danielCraig> but splitting the string only to count the number of lines , is a little bit slow, shall I do it with some kind of string.indexOf  and a loop?
[20:55:20] <white_gecko> if hava a "Parrent obj = new Child();" and want to call "obj.childMethod();" on it.
[20:55:40] <white_gecko> and Child extends Parrent
[20:55:54] <white_gecko> how do i validate, that obj is a Child?
[20:56:09] <_W_> danielCraig, it's trivially slower, and if you want a loop, you should just count the newlines directly
[20:56:37] <_W_> white_gecko, you misspelled "parent"
[20:56:47] <ernimril> white_gecko: if you want to do that you should not lose the information that obj is a Child
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[20:57:01] * _W_ nods
[20:57:08] <white_gecko> i tried if(obj instanceof Child) {obj.childMethod();} but netbeans tells me, it doesn't know the symbol (childMethod)
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[20:57:42] <white_gecko> hm but i did loose this information, because it is the type of the used backend
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[20:57:43] <ernimril> white_gecko: you need to cast it
[20:57:49] <_W_> just do Child somethingMoreSensibleThanObj = new Child(); somethingMoreSensibleThanObj.childMethod();
[20:58:03] <Teknoenie> is there a way to specify the maximum thread count at runtime?
[20:58:12] <ernimril> Teknoenie: no, not really
[20:58:15] <_W_> Teknoenie, no, why would there be such a thing?
[20:58:25] <ernimril> Teknoenie: but you can make sure you do not use more than X threads
[20:58:31] <_W_> you can enforce it with a security manager I guess, but you'd break tons and tons of code
[20:58:44] <Teknoenie> i'm running in an HPC cluster and if a Java application is running on a 12 core machine it launches 12 threads for each job and 12 jobs are packed on a node
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[20:58:47] <white_gecko> ernimril: thanks, I think, that was the point
[20:59:16] <_W_> Teknoenie, I don't understand - is this what you want, or what you don't want?
[20:59:24] <Teknoenie> don't want
[20:59:31] <_W_> why not?
[20:59:32] <Teknoenie> it should be 1 thread per core
[20:59:41] <_W_> presumably the application knows best how many threads are good'
[20:59:41] <Teknoenie> otherwise the machine is over subscribed
[20:59:53] <Teknoenie> that is a wrong assumption in an HPC cluster
[20:59:56] <_W_> erm, people did multithreaded apps long before multicores
[21:00:10] <_W_> ok then I have no idea what you are talking about
[21:00:21] <_W_> but chances are Java is wrong for it
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[21:01:19] <Teknoenie> I understand that, but the user application is Java, I need to be able to run it and as such being able to specify the number of threads to run based on the number of threads requested is essential
[21:01:54] <Teknoenie> Matlab has the MaxNumCompThreads(x) option to limit it's threaded behavior to X, so I was hoping Java had something similar
[21:02:25] <Teknoenie> OpenMP, MPI, etc all have this behaviour, so I'm a bit at odds as to why Java doesn't
[21:02:47] <_W_> Teknoenie, various /features/ of java have a max thread count
[21:02:58] <_W_> such as executors, database pools, network libraries, etc
[21:03:04] <Teknoenie> can it be specified at run time or only in code?
[21:03:15] <_W_> but there's no unified way of controling it, you just have to have the application configure everything right
[21:03:38] <ernimril> Teknoenie: your code can control how many threads your code want to use at runtime
[21:03:40] <_W_> and even then, it is hard to keep track of all the libraries that just spawn a new thread for the hell of it
[21:04:01] <_W_> (HttpUrlConnection, I am looking at you)
[21:04:39] <Teknoenie> so there really isn't a way in Java to specify at run time.  What about globally in the JIT compiler or through a config file?
[21:05:08] <_W_> Teknoenie, your code does new Thread().start(). What will happen with that code, if the thread count is at max?
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[21:06:46] <_W_> Teknoenie, is there a simple explanation for why one too many thread is a bad thing in your case?
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[21:07:41] <Teknoenie> yes, because there are many more than just this one application running on these nodes
[21:07:52] <Teknoenie> stepping on peoples toes is not a good thing
[21:08:28] <Teknoenie> I have to step out for a minute.  Perhaps I need to reformulate what I'm asking here
[21:08:30] <_W_> that might have been too simple. I mean, is there a simple explanation for why your situation is different from running on a regular PC?
[21:08:49] <_W_> if you run too many threads, do programs crash?
[21:08:53] <Teknoenie> all I want is the ability to say that I want Java application X to only be able to use Y # of threads
[21:09:06] <_W_> and we've told you repeatedly, there's no simple way to do that
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[21:09:17] <Teknoenie> right, so it doesn't work
[21:09:19] <_W_> also, are you talking Java treads, OS threads, or perhaps even processes?
[21:09:22] <thepro4ever> what is the link to pastebin
[21:09:25] <thepro4ever> ~paste
[21:09:25] <javabot> Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
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[21:17:42] <marcosroriz> guys, why I'm gettin false for thing like. System.out.println(field[0].getName()) // Prints "hai", then I do if (field[0].getName() == "hai") I get false
[21:18:16] <ernimril> marcosroriz: because Strings are objects and not primitives
[21:18:25] <ernimril> marcosroriz: what does == do for objects?
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[21:18:44] <marcosroriz> I know, but it used to work
[21:19:31] <marcosroriz> hm
[21:19:46] <ernimril> marcosroriz: what does == do for objects?
[21:19:58] <dob1> i use the derby db in embedded mode, to backup it can i simply copy the directory where the database is even if the database is in use?
[21:20:07] <marcosroriz> == means equal, if objects are the same
[21:20:11] <marcosroriz> on memory
[21:20:50] <ernimril> marcosroriz: == checks if the reference points to the same objects, it is not an equality test
[21:21:01] <marcosroriz> yeah, that
[21:21:06] <ernimril> marcosroriz: so how do you check for equality?
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[21:21:18] <marcosroriz> I hate the compareTo and equals methods >.<
[21:21:41] <vladimirS> marcosroriz: they sometimes don't work
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[21:22:00] <vladimirS> ive had a case where string1.compareto(string2) are equal but it says they arent
[21:22:13] <vladimirS> so i had to swap and make it string2.compareto(string1)
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[21:27:38] <Yivz> Does the main() method being declared synchronized have any significant? When main() is invoked, does it even belong to any class? Since a normal static method belongs to a particular Class.
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[21:32:13] <dmb> hey
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[21:32:21] <dmb> any of you use the grizzly framework?
[21:32:24] <ernimril> Yivz: all methods belong to one class
[21:32:53] <BadQuanta> So.. is the Observable/Observer models ideal for monitoring changes to data so that a Swing object can update?
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[21:33:26] <the_birdman> BadQuanta: It depends, I personally don't use those classes anymore
[21:33:29] <ernimril> Yivz: adding synchronized to a static method means that you synchronize on the class of that method, so it is more or less the same as "class MyClass {public static void main(String[] args) { synchronized(MyClass) {... }}}"
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[21:34:02] <BadQuanta> the_birdman: Do you just re-implement the logic yourself or is there a better (standard library) way of doing it?
[21:34:02] <the_birdman> BadQuanta: consider jgoodies binding or custom listeners, etc.
[21:34:53] <the_birdman> BadQuanta: there are just plenty of ways, observer/observable is fine anyway, however you might want to extend something else other than observable in your model, etc.
[21:35:14] <BadQuanta> the_birdman: I ask because I worry that observer/observable won't always dispatch on the "event processing thread"... or whatever.
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[21:35:52] <BadQuanta> the_birdman: If it isn't obvious to you, I am a Java student.
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[21:37:12] <the_birdman> BadQuanta: if you use threads use SwingUtilities to update the GUI that's it, I didn't read the observable source code, but if the observer GUI isn't notified in the EDT, you can do it yourself
[21:37:36] <BadQuanta> the_birdman: Thanks. :)
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[21:38:17] <Yivz> ernimril, Thank you. Your first statement pretty much answered the second part of the my question.
[21:39:08] <BadQuanta> the_birdman: So, basically I should just encapsulate my "handeling" code in a Runner and call invokeLater()/invokeAndWait() (as appropriate). :)  Thanks.
[21:39:25] <mcastro> ernimril: Hey, jsut a quesiton, are you involved now in any open source project?
[21:39:59] <ernimril> mcastro: yes, several
[21:40:19] <mcastro> ernimril: JAva based?
[21:40:33] <ernimril> mcastro: my pet projects, but since I have a full time job I do not do as much work as I want on them
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[21:40:55] <mcastro> ernimril: OK i see
[21:41:02] <ernimril> mcastro: mostly, yes: http://www.khelekore.org/ (there are a few private projects apart from those as well)
[21:41:28] <mcastro> ernimril: ok, thank you for sharing
[21:41:42] <ernimril> mcastro: prtree might seem inactive, but it just does not require much work :-)
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[21:44:28] <ernimril> mcastro: I mostly made prtree since the oracle based r-tree used way too much memory
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[21:44:51] <AMcBain> heh
[21:45:01] <ernimril> mcastro: and I wanted to know how priority r-tree worked, general r-tree I knew about already
[21:45:29] <mcastro> ernimril: I am checking it out, i t looks nice, also the rabit proxy :)
[21:45:49] <ernimril> AMcBain: 1M point objects and oracle uses 140 MB, my r-tree uses 16 MB (if I remember the numbers correctly)
[21:46:04] <AMcBain> wow
[21:46:10] <mcastro> ernimril: I worked a long time ago for a company that focused on speeding up webpages.. we never got an answer about why people don;t use gzip in the web servers
[21:46:53] <ernimril> AMcBain: and speed is about the same for many lookups (+- 1 percent without any statistical evidence)
[21:47:20] <ernimril> mcastro: I think more people do use gzip nowdays, at least more servers make it easier to set it up
[21:47:59] <AMcBain> people's personal projects always seem to be cool, and other pressing concerns always tend to reduce amount of time spent on them
[21:48:22] <mcastro> ernimril: The only answer that made sense to me (apart from the CPU load) was an incompatibility with with either the HTTP or GZIP implementations
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[21:49:19] <mcastro> ernimril: Quickly we realized that if gmail was using gzip there was nothing to fear
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[21:49:39] <mcastro> ernimril: I am talking 6 years ago
[21:49:41] <ernimril> AMcBain: the problem with oracles r-tree  (and most other r-trees as well) is that you need to provide some box-object (double[][] for oracle, a Box for many others). I let the user provide a MBRConverter that can give the bounds on a specific object instead. That means that I do not have to change the objects I store or keep the extra MBR
[21:50:11] <AMcBain> yeah
[21:51:35] <AMcBain> working on a bit of my website today so that I can more easily add stuff to my database for listing new projects and putting all the old ones back up.
[21:52:05] <AMcBain> I don't mind the cli, but entering all the projects at the database console via inserts is not my idea of fun.
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[22:02:54] <flfuf> Hi. could someone give me a hand on how to retrieve input using the scanner, and automatically store it as an int, double, string, or whatever I want instead of being a java.util.scanner data type?
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[22:03:57] <_W_> flfuf, can you explain what you mean? Scanner does give you primitives and such
[22:04:02] <_W_> ~javadoc Scanner
[22:04:02] <javabot> _W_: http://is.gd/3iWx7 [JDK: java.util.Scanner]
[22:04:13] <Serendib> http://www.java-forums.org/java-tips/5518-using-scanner-class-read-int.html
[22:04:47] <_W_> nextInt for instance, produces an int primitive, not a java.util.scanner.Int (which doesn't exist) or anything else
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[22:08:08] <anders^> How come the g.drawRect() call before the sleep, and the System.out.println afterwards work, but not the g.drawX() after the sleep?
[22:08:17] <anders^> http://pastie.org/869474
[22:08:39] <anders^> i.e. only the first, last and sleep calls work
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[22:08:57] <anders^> this is drawn to an ImageBuffer image
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[22:10:50] <anders^> also any println statement inside the try block works too, but not any drawX statement
[22:11:09] <ernimril> anders^: provide a real test case
[22:11:44] <anders^> I'm not sure I understand what you mean
[22:11:52] <ernimril> ~test case
[22:11:52] <javabot> ernimril, sscce is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.pscode.org/sscce.html for details and a HOWTO
[22:12:02] <anders^> http://pastie.org/869479
[22:12:54] <anders^> oh wait, will i have to redraw the image each time?
[22:13:08] <ernimril> anders^: that code does not compile
[22:13:46] <anders^> DrawingMain is my own class, an extension of a JFrame with a BufferedImage attached to it.
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[22:13:53] <anders^> But I think I understand the problem now
[22:14:05] <anders^> Sorry, DrawFrame is my own class.
[22:14:28] <rawtaz> i am trying to test my application (web page + servlet) for file uploading. ive tested how the server reacts when the client goes away under transmission of a file, but i need to try what happens to the client when the server goes away.
[22:14:33] <ernimril> anders^: well, until you provide a real test case it is pretty hard to help you, but it looks like you do swing/java2d/awt outside the edt and then anything might happen
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[22:15:15] <rawtaz> however, if in eclipse, at the very time that a file is being uploaded by the browser, i click "stop server" in the debug pane, to shutdown tomcat, it doesnt shut down until the file is finished transferring. is there a way to nicely force it to shutdown prematurely?
[22:15:35] <rawtaz> or do i have to go about killing the actual tomcat process manually to simulate such a thing?
[22:15:47] <anders^> ernimril: yes, I've gotten that answer before. I'll go and read up about working with the EDT instead of wasting other people's time
[22:15:57] <ernimril> ~edt
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[22:15:57] <javabot> ernimril, edt is Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the awt/swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on Swing and threads, and note http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2005/tt0727.html#1
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[23:13:14] <daedra> hey, this is more of a programming/architectural problem I have, but I will be solving it using Java. I have a class which creates map and has game logic (the Game), and another class which sends text commands to the Game (the Player). I wish to wrap the game into a server so that I can have many players (once I write the server) connecting to the game. How should I go about writting a server wrapper?
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[23:14:32] <daedra> I would ideally like it to go Game -> Server -> Clients, keeping the server simply as a message passer
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[23:14:58] <RLa> so you need to handle game logics at clients
[23:15:21] <daedra> well yeah the clients are just human players
[23:15:36] <daedra> they will enter text commands ot make stuff happen in the Game
[23:16:03] <RLa> i do not see where the problem is
[23:16:13] <daedra> I need to write the server wrapper
[23:16:21] <daedra> I'm just wondering if this idea is possible
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[23:16:47] <daedra> currently there can be only one client and one server, and they are very tightly coupled
[23:17:16] <daedra> text gets passed between the two
[23:17:45] <daedra> but I wish to separate concerns - to extract the server just to do the message passing between the game and the players
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[23:18:19] <daedra> anyone here had experience with this?
[23:18:41] <RLa> so you have three kind of parties? server, game, players?
[23:18:47] <daedra> yea
[23:18:49] <RLa> is there a single game?
[23:18:52] <daedra> yes
[23:19:03] <daedra> and a single server
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[23:19:05] <RLa> but multiple players?
[23:19:09] <daedra> yes
[23:19:37] <RLa> so server handle game logics
[23:19:45] <RLa> not players
[23:19:49] <daedra> no the Game does
[23:19:59] <daedra> server does not exist yet
[23:20:01] <RLa> yes but it would be on server side
[23:20:06] <SEcki> but Game and Server run under the same jvm?
[23:20:06] <thepro4ever> is there a separate channel for java EE or is this the best we got
[23:20:20] <daedra> SEcki: yes
[23:20:41] <daedra> that is how it will be
[23:21:06] <daedra> provided I don't totally mess this up
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[23:21:19] <SEcki> then write a parser part where you parse what the players enter and do error handling, after that pass certain java objects to the game
[23:21:24] <RLa> do you need server to notify players?
[23:21:55] <daedra> RLa: no, the game does that
[23:22:14] <SEcki> why not let the server handle all communication?
[23:22:16] <RLa> or can you use something like http with request-response cycle?
[23:22:35] <daedra> SEcki: because the game handles the game logic
[23:22:45] <daedra> the server should just pass messages
[23:22:48] <daedra> ideally
[23:23:09] <daedra> no http crap
[23:23:11] <RLa> pass from player to game or in opposite direction too?
[23:23:11] <daedra> just sockets
[23:23:14] <freeone3000> So you're putting trust in your clients. Interesting.
[23:23:14] <SEcki> no, you should have verification and error handling to the client there somewhere too
[23:23:19] <daedra> RLa: both directions
[23:23:30] <daedra> SEcki: well yes that is after I get this working
[23:23:35] <RLa> so http will not work
[23:23:45] <SEcki> and let the game just pass to your "server" side, ie the ones communicating with clients
[23:23:56] <daedra> RLa: I'm using sockets and on a  LAN
[23:24:02] <daedra> RLa: forget about http
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[23:24:15] <SEcki> RLa: he just uses Sockets and builds a protocol on hos own, no problem
[23:24:21] <RLa> good luck with inventing your own communication protocol
[23:24:27] <freeone3000> Not that hard.
[23:24:36] <daedra> the protocol is already written
[23:24:43] <freeone3000> Worst he comes up with is SOAP-RMI.
[23:24:48] <daedra> I'm just writing the server!
[23:24:54] <daedra> jebus
[23:25:14] <RLa> so just pass your text through sockets
[23:25:20] <RLa> i see no problems
[23:25:37] <RLa> you have to handle timeouts and such too, of course
[23:25:37] <daedra> the problem is, what architectural approach would be most suitable
[23:25:40] <SEcki> me neither
[23:25:43] <freeone3000> Architectural?
[23:26:04] <RLa> architecture is *client-server*
[23:26:19] <daedra> writing a server wrapper should ideally keep the server and the game separate
[23:26:31] <daedra> so the server just does message passing
[23:26:31] <SEcki> you do separation of concerns and message passing - what do you head for?
[23:26:42] <daedra> SEcki: I don't know..
[23:26:45] <daedra> MVC?
[23:26:45] <SEcki> and server-client, of yourse
[23:26:50] <daedra> yea of course
[23:27:03] <SEcki> is this a trick question?
[23:27:12] <daedra> no!
[23:27:18] <daedra> I am genuinely stuck here
[23:27:25] <freeone3000> Stuck *where*?
[23:27:35] <RLa> it's just a problem of implementing how to pass text around in sockets
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[23:27:47] <SEcki> yes, server does message parsing, the game doesn't do that - where is the problem?
[23:28:05] <daedra> where to put the server code
[23:28:14] <freeone3000> ..In the server.
[23:28:15] <daedra> I want to keep the game code relatively untouched
[23:28:21] <SEcki> Server.java <- in there!
[23:28:27] <daedra> haha
[23:28:39] <RLa> no
[23:28:56] <daedra> I don't want to put server code in Game.java...
[23:29:00] <RLa> depends whether you want thread by client or single thread server model
[23:29:11] <freeone3000> You're creating a new component.
[23:29:16] <daedra> clients are threads
[23:29:54] <RLa> so a client (on server) would read stuff from socket, obtain game instance and pass to it
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[23:30:26] <RLa> or do you want game to be special class of client?
[23:30:41] <daedra> I agree with your first comment
[23:30:52] <daedra> but I don't know what you mean by special class
[23:31:10] <RLa> daedra, a possibility of having multiple games
[23:31:22] <daedra> no only one game please
[23:31:44] <daedra> 1 game per server
[23:31:46] <freeone3000> You have a Game. A Client. A Server. Done.
[23:32:02] <freeone3000> People keep having this adversion to creating more classes.
[23:32:08] <SEcki> you still separate the game stuff, from the connecting stuff from the parsing stuff as much as possible
[23:32:14] <RLa> do you need monitoring interface for server?
[23:32:38] <RLa> and maybe some kind of user moderation system?
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[23:32:54] <SEcki> RLa - do you want to sell something?
[23:33:00] <RLa> maybe
[23:33:38] <daedra> lol
[23:34:02] <daedra> right, I've got some ideas ot think about now
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[23:34:56] <SEcki> this was much do about nothing I guess
[23:35:22] <daedra> a nice chit chat
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[23:38:38] <freeone3000> Okay, with synth, I have http://pastebin.com/3fQJBSee . When I mouse over the component multiple times, the alpha-transparency doesn't stick - it becomes more and more opaque. How do I keep the opacity to that what I set?
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[23:55:25] <pastyhermit> Hey all
[23:56:17] <pastyhermit> I did not know xchat could do themes, they are quite nice I must say
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