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[00:33:39] <The_8472> does someone know an estimate for the mainline DHT node population?
[00:34:32] <DeHackEd> i'm 100% sure it's between 1 and 4 billion ip addresses
[00:34:43] <The_8472> i know that much too
[00:35:08] <thewird> hey DeHackEd :)
[00:35:35] <The_8472> i can actually say that it's between 1 million and 3 million... that's what my estimator got so far
[00:35:38] <kjetilho> wow, 1 billion addresses?
[00:36:06] <thewird> funky and I were hoping to get things moving, when do you think you can work on our project?
[00:36:08] <The_8472> problem is the logarithmic scaling... so even a slight change in the estimate causes a rather large change in the result
[00:36:22] * The_8472 pats kjetilho
[00:37:16] <kjetilho> I'm not packing, officer!
[00:39:10] <DeHackEd> oh yes, I have like a hundred things on my plate, and I keep on putting them off...
[00:39:31] <DeHackEd> I have PCSX, snes9x, mega man X (only partially related), this,  I could go on..
[00:40:33] <thewird> you work on pcsx?
[00:40:58] <thewird> pcsx or pcsx2?
[00:41:01] <DeHackEd> I was making a hack to it to support a special kind of video recording when I slammed into a system breaking bug.
[00:43:31] <thewird> we were kindof hoping to launch this soon
[00:43:43] <thewird> the sooner the better
[00:44:12] <DeHackEd> I blame my sister for assuming I have no life and adding "look after the dog when I'm not here" to my list.
[00:44:18] <DeHackEd> because she's NEVER here.
[00:45:09] <The_8472>  <DeHackEd> I blame my sister for assuming I have no life <- you're on IRC, complaining about your sister stealing your time you could use coding tracker software for thewird
[00:45:23] <The_8472> what was that about having a life? :)
[00:45:37] <thewird> :P
[00:45:48] <DeHackEd> yes, because it's a high energy dog and must be looekd after or else it'll wreak something out of frustration.
[00:46:34] <The_8472> put some tranquilizers in its food :P
[00:47:28] <thewird> anything I could do to help :)
[00:47:36] <DeHackEd> send transquilizers
[00:47:45] <thewird> lol
[00:47:52] <The_8472> i should start a help column ^^
[00:48:10] <thewird> how about we work out a deal
[00:48:15] <DeHackEd> at least I have sshfs
[00:48:34] <thewird> ill let you sit in the passenger seat for a few track days :)
[00:49:09] <thewird> your interested right :P
[00:49:10] <thewird> haha
[00:51:21] <DeHackEd> ...?
[00:52:29] <thewird> you get to sit in the passenger seat around the track a few days
[00:52:43] <DeHackEd> like, race car track?
[00:52:47] <thewird> yes
[00:53:06] <thewird> Mosport, Shannonville etc
[00:53:11] <thewird> i go to a few
[00:54:06] <thewird> im still preping the car in the garage for next year
[00:54:06] <thewird> lol
[01:13:35] * DeHackEd needs a new mouse..
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[01:22:12] <thewird> DeHackEd: which one?
[01:22:23] <DeHackEd> one that's less than 7 years old
[01:22:37] <thewird> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/ pick one
[01:22:54] <DeHackEd> I was planning on just going to walmart or something...
[01:23:49] <DeHackEd> the little rubber feet have fallen off, there's hair or something in front of the eye, there's crap inside it I don't even want to imagine, and the wheel has gotten lumpy. I don't even know how that works.
[01:24:35] <thewird> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=143&
[01:24:39] <thewird> pick one
[01:24:49] <thewird> and give me your address
[01:25:29] <DeHackEd> no, they all suck. why does my mouse need a ball on top of the one they normally have? (ie. before optical mice became popular)
[01:26:08] <thewird> pick a laser mouse
[01:26:11] <thewird> they dont all suck
[01:26:33] <The_8472> there is one thing that microsoft makes quite well... mice
[01:26:42] <thewird> i agree
[01:26:57] <DeHackEd> The_8472: the day microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is the day they start making vacuum cleaners.
[01:27:06] <thewird> LMAO
[01:27:08] <The_8472> hehehehe
[01:27:18] <thewird> i like microsoft mice though
[01:27:24] <thewird> they fit naturally in yoru hand
[01:27:29] <thewird> and your so used to them
[01:27:37] <The_8472> no really, i'm not exactly what you would call microsoft fan... but the intellimouse explorer series is quite good
[01:27:46] * kjetilho is very fond of the Sun Type 6 mouse, and has half a dozen spares :)
[01:27:58] <kjetilho> the last mouse without that evil scroll wheel
[01:28:13] <The_8472> there are still some w/o scrollwheel
[01:28:15] <thewird> DeHackEd: white or black?
[01:28:37] <The_8472> but they're rare... or have other fancy stuff like a scroll ball
[01:28:40] <kjetilho> actually I wouldn't mind a scroll wheel, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the middle button
[01:28:41] <The_8472> for 2D scrolling
[01:28:58] <The_8472> uhm... the scroll wheel usually is the middle button
[01:29:03] <kjetilho> exactly
[01:29:12] <The_8472> and that's an issue?
[01:29:12] <DeHackEd> <voice style="Jerry Seinfeld">YOU'RE NOT BUYING ME A MOUSE!</voice>
[01:29:24] <kjetilho> yes, I use the middle button way more than the scroll
[01:29:34] <thewird> hows this one http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571596&CatId=539 ?
[01:30:27] <uau> kjetilho: "last mouse without"? how old tech are they? i think optical mouse movement tracking quality has still improved noticeably since not too many years ago
[01:30:49] <thewird> i like my laser mouse
[01:31:02] <uau> btw i have the middle button functionality mapped to a side button of my mouse
[01:31:09] <thewird> Mircrosft laser mouse 6000
[01:31:11] <uau> instead of the scroll wheen button
[01:31:25] <kjetilho> uau: not sure, actually.  it's USB, but that was quite uncommon at the time
[01:31:45] <kjetilho> and it has a real ball, it's not optical
[01:31:50] <thewird> DeHackEd whats that site where you have the php tracker?
[01:32:04] <uau> so for X paste for example i press the left side button with my thumb
[01:32:10] <uau> instead of pressing the scroll wheel
[01:32:16] <uau> ball mouse sounds bad
[01:32:20] <DeHackEd> mine is dehacked.2y.net/BT/
[01:32:21] <uau> i wouldn't want to use one any more
[01:32:37] <uau> modern optical mice are really superior compared to those
[01:32:49] <The_8472> my laptop mouse works like a charm... i can even use it on my leg... try that with a ball mouse
[01:33:05] <thewird> lol
[01:33:06] <kjetilho> The_8472: ehh...
[01:33:21] <kjetilho> fabrics are the biggest problem for optical mice
[01:33:32] <kjetilho> depends on the coarseness of the thread, of course
[01:33:33] <The_8472> yes, and it still works well
[01:34:05] <kjetilho> a ball mouse works everywhere, anyway
[01:34:18] <The_8472> not... really
[01:34:30] <kjetilho> sure does
[01:34:51] <thewird> DeHackEd you have any other sites?
[01:35:09] <DeHackEd> .... no?
[01:35:15] <thewird> just wondering lol
[01:35:22] <uau> kjetilho: what fabric would be a problem?
[01:35:36] <uau> i wouldn't expect modern mice to have problems with any
[01:36:09] <kjetilho> uau: I just notice that some table cloth are problematic when I borrow other people's mouse
[01:36:28] <kjetilho> so I have to use a book or something as an improvised mouse pad
[01:36:43] <uau> table cloth? fabric or some uniform plastic?
[01:37:07] <thewird> so DeHackEd, where do you live :P
[01:37:31] <kjetilho> plastic?  no, linen or cotton I guess
[01:37:55] <uau> i don't see why that would cause problems
[01:38:12] <kjetilho> hmm, I have the wrong word.  what do you call the stuff which cover the entire table?
[01:39:00] <thewird> i need to find some way of speeding you up :)
[01:39:28] <thewird> you dont want money, you dont want a new computer, you dont want to co-pilot at the track, you dont want a new mouse
[01:39:31] <thewird> what do you want
[01:39:32] <thewird> :P
[01:40:06] <DeHackEd> something you can't offer: peace and quiet
[01:40:19] <thewird> you want an apartment?
[01:40:37] <DeHackEd> only if a full-time job is included.
[01:41:00] <thewird> hmm
[01:41:11] <uau> kjetilho: one simple test for mouse quality is to shake it sideways as fast as you can and check that the mouse cursor doesn't start wandering
[01:41:20] <uau> i don't remember seeing a ball mouse which would do that properly
[01:41:47] <kjetilho> hmm, it does vibrate, but it does stay put.
[01:42:43] <uau> (though you probably need mouse acceleration off for the test to work properly, otherwise different speeds at different directions can make the pointer move on average)
[01:43:41] <thewird> you want to be 0:55 ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3qPRAAnOg&eurl=http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/04/bubble-20-the-video/
[01:43:45] <thewird> :)
[01:43:58] <thewird> ignore the money part though
[01:45:39] * DeHackEd deals with file access problems...
[01:46:21] <DeHackEd> ah yes, selinux. my arch nemesis
[01:46:49] <DeHackEd> thewird: I think that ROUGHLY does the download support. it seems to work..
[01:47:45] <thewird> we have a script in mind to control the downloading
[01:48:00] <thewird> the open source version of this http://xtrafile.com/
[01:48:14] <thewird> all we really need is the torrenting part
[01:48:26] <DeHackEd> we have the torrenting part. that's been running for some time now.
[01:48:29] <thewird> that caches files it already has etc
[01:48:35] <thewird> well
[01:48:41] <thewird> i tried adding a second torrent
[01:48:47] <thewird> it didn't work so well :P
[01:48:51] <DeHackEd> your batch torrent. yeah, it seemed to work.
[01:48:58] <DeHackEd> what went wrong? it says it's done.
[01:49:01] <thewird> yes
[01:49:06] <thewird> but i had to delete the torrent first
[01:49:13] <thewird> try adding a second torrent
[01:49:29] <DeHackEd> ummm... quick stop by animesuki first
[01:49:45] <thewird> hehe
[01:49:52] <DeHackEd> this one looks popular
[01:50:21] <DeHackEd> hmm...
[01:50:22] <DeHackEd> okay...
[01:50:36] <thewird> see what i mean
[01:50:37] <thewird> :P
[01:51:25] <thewird> also is this script working across multiple "machines"?
[01:51:26] <DeHackEd> that's a bug in the HTML. I use a <form> for each of those [Info] buttons but forgot my </form> so the form "leaked" into the upload dialog
[01:51:36] <thewird> haha
[01:52:08] <DeHackEd> the script should work across multiple web hosts provided there's a single database (or appearence thereof)
[01:52:55] <thewird> so that would have to be coded then wouldn't it :)
[01:53:10] <thewird> the part where we add servers to the cluster etc
[01:53:31] <DeHackEd> adding servers is as "easy" as 1) adding a row to the database   and 2) running the appropriate script on the machine
[01:53:43] <DeHackEd> but both actions would need to be done manually right now
[01:53:55] <thewird> oh ok
[01:54:06] <thewird> as long as its there :)
[01:54:14] <thewird> whats the row in the database?
[01:54:17] <thewird> what info does it need?
[01:54:20] <DeHackEd> select * from machines
[01:54:24] <DeHackEd> you'll figure it out.
[01:54:41] <thewird> well cpanel isn't installed on the server so i dont know how to look at teh database :P
[01:54:46] <thewird> ill be honest
[01:54:47] <thewird> hehe
[01:55:03] <DeHackEd> commandline: mysql -u bitcache -p bitcache
[01:55:16] <DeHackEd> alternatively, we install phpmyadmin
[01:55:26] <thewird> that would be nice if you have time
[01:55:37] <DeHackEd> fortunately it's easy
[01:55:45] <thewird> hurray
[01:56:55] <thewird> ok now how do i look at the database
[01:57:04] <thewird> ive never touched mysql through command line
[01:57:16] <thewird> or i could wait for phpmyadmin since its easy :)
[01:58:05] <DeHackEd> http://ip.addy.goes.here/phpmyadmin/
[01:58:58] <thewird> woot phpmyadmin :D
[01:59:21] <thewird> space in kb cool
[01:59:39] <DeHackEd> that's manually specified for now. the system uses it to decide what machine takes it with regard to available disk sapce.
[01:59:53] <DeHackEd> but the "free" unit will scale up and down correctly provided it's initialzed properly
[02:00:03] <thewird> nice
[02:00:14] <thewird> how does the machine connect to it?
[02:00:35] <DeHackEd> a PHP script monitors the database and makes assignments
[02:00:37] <thewird> cause theres no column for login info
[02:01:34] <DeHackEd> ..?
[02:02:05] <thewird> how would the script tell another server to start downloading the torrent?
[02:02:57] <thewird> it would need to know the IP/hostname at a minimum?
[02:03:22] <DeHackEd> it decides which machine by its id# and then in the torrents table, sets the machineid column. the machine's monitor will scoop it up
[02:05:00] <thewird> monitor?
[02:05:19] <DeHackEd> the PHP script that manager the BT client
[02:05:56] <DeHackEd> it makes sure BT is running correctly, kills torrents that are good and seeded, and starts torrents that are assigned to it
[02:05:58] <thewird> so the "downloading slave" polls the main for torrents?
[02:06:39] <DeHackEd> currently yes. having a socket open and pushing requests is the second option of course...
[02:07:28] <thewird> does the slave have its own database?
[02:07:57] <DeHackEd> no, it does tcp access. mysql replication might be feasible though and have a local copy.
[02:08:16] <thewird> so this is done via cron then?
[02:08:27] <DeHackEd> no, script runs forever
[02:11:19] <thewird> what if the script dies :)
[02:11:34] <thewird> server crashes
[02:11:35] <thewird> etc
[02:12:14] <DeHackEd> the script does ping the database to indicate it's alive. it can be made to report if something's awry
[02:13:53] <thewird> hmm
[02:14:14] <thewird> where is the script located?
[02:14:15] <DeHackEd> in terms of user access, there's things to be done -- notably prevent download acceleration, something about account sharing, account management is completely missing (we're just using a temporary testing table) and such.
[02:14:26] <DeHackEd> all the management scripts are currently stored in /home/btmaster
[02:14:54] <thewird> what about the script that runs on the slave machine?
[02:14:59] <DeHackEd> /home/btmaster/shared
[02:15:16] <thewird> its a php script?
[02:15:21] <DeHackEd> yeah. php-cli
[02:15:26] <DeHackEd> I run it under a screen
[02:15:30] <thewird> don't those time out :P
[02:15:41] <DeHackEd> not php-cli
[02:15:46] <thewird> ic
[02:15:58] <DeHackEd> php-cgi does, as it runs under the assumption of a CGI script. php-cli has a few changes, such as not timing out by default
[02:16:13] <DeHackEd> though a script can still request a timeout be explicitly set.
[02:16:24] <thewird> which one is the file that runs, manager or funcs_manager?
[02:16:41] <DeHackEd> funcs_mamanger is an include file
[02:17:11] <thewird> i guess i could have looked at the script to figure that out
[02:17:12] <thewird> lol
[02:18:15] <DeHackEd> the "CLI" version of PHP doesn't do HTML-formatted errors, assumes output flushing, doesn't time scripts out, and processes argc/argv.
[02:18:38] <thewird> php /path/to/script ?
[02:19:06] <DeHackEd> pretty much
[02:20:14] <thewird> wow, this makes things simpler
[02:20:17] <thewird> lol
[02:20:39] <thewird> we don't have to run VM's if its on the same machine
[02:20:41] <thewird> thats cool
[02:21:06] <thewird> im going to create a few VM's though to test it out
[02:21:14] <DeHackEd> do your worst
[02:21:19] <thewird> :)
[02:21:41] <thewird> btw
[02:21:54] <DeHackEd> one thing: there's a specially modified version of BitTornado in /home/btmach1 with a script called btlaunchmanydb.py which you're supposed to use... it's not very automated yet. it populates a database with its stats, rather than output to screen
[02:21:55] <thewird> it caches torrents based off their hash?
[02:22:14] <thewird> ah ic
[02:22:18] <DeHackEd> yes
[02:23:43] <DeHackEd> the system is supposed to recognize when two users upload the same torrent and will instead grant the second user access to the same file as the first
[02:24:32] <DeHackEd> which presents an abusable system where anybody can immediately download any file which has been downloaded already. I think some kind of staggering might be a good idea.
[02:24:55] <thewird> yah i thought about that already
[02:25:13] <thewird> have some sort of processing time
[02:25:16] <thewird> even if its available
[02:25:46] <thewird> and then comes the good part where mogile does its magic
[02:25:57] <thewird> with multiple copies on different machines
[02:30:39] <DeHackEd> tried the file download function yet?
[02:31:20] <DeHackEd> right now it uses a hack where each download machine is assumed to be on the local filesystem and just constructs a filename for fopen() to send. in the future it will be easy enough to make it access mogilefs once access is available
[02:31:54] <thewird> oh ill try that now
[02:31:58] <thewird> thought it still wasn't working
[02:32:52] <DeHackEd> it's been working for a bit now
[02:33:01] <thewird> :P
[02:33:04] <thewird> and you didn't tell me
[02:33:30] <DeHackEd> <DeHackEd> ah yes, selinux. my arch nemesis
[02:33:30] <DeHackEd> <DeHackEd> thewird: I think that ROUGHLY does the download support. it seems to work..
[02:33:31] <DeHackEd> yes I did
[02:33:48] <DeHackEd> okay, maybe it wasn't totally definitive, but I did say it
[02:34:10] <thewird> oh you ment today :P
[02:35:07] <thewird> it doesn't report the content length but thats ok
[02:35:15] <DeHackEd> oh... that's easy to fix
[02:35:24] <DeHackEd> forgot about that
[02:35:30] <thewird> dont worry about it hehe
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[02:36:50] <DeHackEd> that should do it
[02:38:24] <thewird> doesn't support download accelerators nice
[02:38:27] <thewird> :D
[02:38:34] <DeHackEd> no, but it doesn't support resuming either.
[02:38:48] <thewird> right
[02:39:09] <DeHackEd> this xtrafile.com thing... what is it?
[02:39:23] <thewird> file hosting script
[02:39:32] <thewird> has a lot of admin features for limiting etc
[02:39:37] <DeHackEd> so rapidshare-in-a-box
[02:39:39] <thewird> and storage servers
[02:39:41] <thewird> basically
[02:39:54] <thewird> supports multiple storages nodes
[02:40:00] <thewird> so saves us the trouble of worrying about it
[02:40:27] <thewird> so we're planning on doing a mogile/xtrafile hybrid
[02:41:50] <DeHackEd> whatever. I need a PHP-accessible way of putting files in, and pulling files out of whatever we're going to use
[02:42:15] <thewird> yah mogile is just a backend so dont worry about it
[02:43:55] <thewird> i like how Paypal gives 1% back on Debit purchases lol
[02:44:16] <DeHackEd> look at it this way: paypal probably loses 1% on credit card transaction fees
[02:44:45] <thewird> maybe
[02:44:58] <thewird> but if i use the Paypal debit card as a Mastercard
[02:45:01] <thewird> they pay me to use it
[02:45:06] <thewird> 1% of all purchases
[02:45:15] <DeHackEd> interesting
[02:45:29] <thewird> i bought parts for a dual quad xeon on newegg
[02:45:33] <thewird> and got $23 back
[02:45:35] <thewird> LMAO
[02:45:59] <DeHackEd> what kind of user auth system are we using. vbulletin? phpbb? some CMS?
[02:46:39] <thewird> we were thinking of creating our own actually to keep it simple
[02:47:20] <DeHackEd> "simple" is offloading the job to something that already exists. if you were planning on having a forum or other type of sign-up media, it might make things easier.
[02:48:03] <thewird> hmm ic
[02:48:17] <thewird> vbulletin would be the weapon of choice if we went down that road
[02:48:18] <thewird> :P
[02:49:48] <DeHackEd> I've seen this done before. The issue is that vbulletin presents itself mainly as the forum, so it may be a bit confusing to users to register and login with a forum to gain access to the rest of the site. That's something that may need to be done in the layout.
[02:49:49] <thewird> ill talk to funky about it
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[02:54:32] <DeHackEd> it covers the need for a forum (if any), email authentication, often with CAPTCHA support and all, cookie management (PHP's default cookie system kinda sucks)
[02:54:35] <dimaka> Hi! Could you advice me open source tracker engine?
[02:55:17] <DeHackEd> what are your needs?
[02:56:33] <dimaka> Hm, I am newbie at this... I wanna watch out different trackers and their features
[02:57:10] <dimaka> though I need standart functions, it just must works :D
[02:57:33] <DeHackEd> well, the official client (the python ones) include a tracker, as well as derivatives like bittornado
[02:57:55] <DeHackEd> there's a C++ app called BNBT and has several clones. DreadWingKnight knows more about that than me.
[02:58:11] <DeHackEd> for PHP needs, there's a barebones but fully functional tracker called PHPBTTracker
[02:59:34] <dimaka> php engine tracker is more compatible solution for me
[02:59:38] <dimaka> thanks
[02:59:50] <DeHackEd> maybe, but it has the worst performance and lowest capacities
[02:59:58] <DeHackEd> and it makes shared webhosts cry. but for small loads, it's okay.
[03:01:08] <thewird> i remember using your track DeHackEd :P
[03:01:11] <thewird> like 5 years ago
[03:01:24] <DeHackEd> that would be about the time I first wrote it
[03:01:30] <thewird> yah
[03:01:44] <thewird> host shut me down in 4 hours
[03:01:45] <thewird> was fun
[03:01:46] <thewird> :)
[03:02:04] <DeHackEd> this is why I have a dedicated P166 doing more work than such a machine should do, including apache hosting
[03:03:18] <DeHackEd> s/have/had/
[03:21:11] <dimaka> what about a server for tracker engine? what bandwith speed is optimal?
[03:21:39] <thewird> as much as you can get?
[03:21:52] <thewird> really depends on how much you want to use it
[03:21:58] <thewird> how many peers
[03:21:59] <thewird> etc
[03:22:10] <dimaka> 50-200 users
[03:22:29] <thewird> thats nothing for a tracker bandwidth wise
[03:23:18] <thewird> any package should be fine
[03:23:28] <thewird> id be more worried about how much cpu the host will let you use
[03:23:47] <thewird> even though thats not a lot
[03:24:36] <dimaka> I will host it on Celeron 2.4 =\
[03:25:00] <thewird> dedicated?
[03:25:11] <dimaka> And I have up to 10 Mb/s bandwith for my city net
[03:25:20] <dimaka> yeah
[03:25:39] <thewird> then just optimize mysql and your more then fine
[03:26:18] <dimaka> does any engine work with postgresql?
[03:27:09] <thewird> why not use mysql?
[03:28:28] <dimaka> actually I don't use them both :-D but now I am running a site with cms and using postgresql
[03:28:50] <dimaka> I don't know anything about mysql
[03:29:09] <dimaka> but read some docs about postgres
[03:42:14] <DeHackEd> just do a default mysql installation, set the root password, and phpbttracker can give itself access if you allow it the root password for installation purposes
[03:42:33] <DeHackEd> mysql just has such high market penetration that it's almost assumed to be available...
[03:43:53] <DeHackEd> bedtime.
[04:05:16] <thewird> night
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[05:16:52] <firefly2442> someone should post this on slashdot as a story
[05:16:53] <firefly2442> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2249209,00.asp
[05:17:07] <firefly2442> to persuade people to contact the FCC with their opinion on Comcast
[05:17:21] <firefly2442> they would be flooded with responses
[05:20:10] <thewird> how do I complain to the FCC?
[05:20:15] <thewird> i think my ISP is violating my rights
[05:20:19] <thewird> lol
[05:20:49] <thewird> I run this call XenCenter which allows me to remotely manage Virtual Machines in Chcaigo
[05:20:52] <thewird> *Chicago
[05:21:09] <thewird> and they keep complaining that I'm port scanning those IP's
[05:21:23] <thewird> and have disconnected my internet for a week once
[05:22:04] <thewird> when all im doing is connecting via XenCenter to IP's I own
[05:23:38] <firefly2442> If all this amounts to nothing and the FCC doesn't do anything, this could be the precedent for other ISPs to filter
[05:23:52] <firefly2442> bye bye net neutrality :(
[05:24:12] <thewird> we can already say bye bye net neutrality
[05:24:41] <thewird> my ISP disconnects me for remotely connecting via VNC
[05:24:46] <thewird> and says i have a virus
[05:24:47] <thewird> wtf
[05:25:16] <thewird> virus thats port scanning
[05:26:17] <firefly2442> why aren't the ISPs going after spammers and the botnets that operate millions of computers?
[05:26:24] <firefly2442> doesn't that take a lot of bandwidth?
[05:26:53] <thewird> cause they can't?
[05:26:57] <funkywizard> you could try binding vnc to a different port
[05:27:04] <thewird> i can't control it
[05:27:13] <thewird> its part of XenCenter
[05:27:19] <thewird> I already complained to XenSource
[05:27:24] <funkywizard> set up the firewall on the remote machine to nat the ports from one port to another
[05:27:31] <funkywizard> or something
[05:27:46] <thewird> ah its funky
[05:27:48] <thewird> didn't notice :P
[05:27:52] <funkywizard> ;)
[05:28:01] <funkywizard> when i started talking about routing, you knew it was me ;)
[05:28:10] <firefly2442> bedtime for me, keep fighting the good fight ;)
[05:28:27] <funkywizard> omg, the fat chick i grinded on on new years added me to her myspace
[05:28:28] <thewird> yah sortof
[05:28:29] <thewird> night
[05:28:35] <thewird> lmao
[05:28:48] <thewird> DeHackEd apparently made a good system
[05:28:53] <funkywizard> http://a305.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/30/l_154fa99c1b584c54d16a6438a43682d8.jpg on the left
[05:28:58] <funkywizard> oh yeah?
[05:29:01] <thewird> the slaves need no MySQL
[05:29:06] <funkywizard> i like good systems
[05:29:15] <thewird> its just a PHP daemon that runs forever
[05:29:16] <funkywizard> hmm, how do they figure out what to do then?
[05:29:31] <thewird> and it polls the main server for torrents
[05:29:43] <funkywizard> nice
[05:29:46] <thewird> so even if we decided to have it all on one server to start
[05:29:55] <thewird> no VM's are needed
[05:29:59] <funkywizard> ah
[05:30:06] <thewird> although
[05:30:14] <thewird> im not sure how mogile would affect that
[05:30:22] <thewird> cause im not sure how it works
[05:30:26] <funkywizard> oh
[05:30:31] <funkywizard> im not entirely sure
[05:30:34] <funkywizard> i think we can work it out
[05:30:40] <thewird> yah
[05:30:50] <thewird> but it makes it really easy to setup slaves
[05:30:57] <thewird> cause all you do is run the daemon
[05:31:05] <thewird> and it tells the master here i am
[05:31:20] <thewird> right now you still have to add the machine the the main database
[05:31:25] <funkywizard> it connects to the master via mysql?
[05:31:29] <thewird> but im sure it can be coded to automatically add it
[05:31:32] <funkywizard> or via some other method?
[05:31:33] <thewird> yah
[05:31:35] <thewird> mysql
[05:31:39] <funkywizard> alright, that makes the most sense
[05:32:00] <funkywizard> that chick would be pretty cool if she lost like 100 pounds
[05:32:03] <thewird> im gonna put it on real separate machines when i get a chance
[05:32:08] <thewird> hahaha
[05:32:25] <funkywizard> she'd still be a little fat, but it would be tolerable
[05:32:37] <thewird> 100 pounds too much :)
[05:33:02] <funkywizard> lol
[05:33:03] <funkywizard> yeah
[05:33:23] <funkywizard> rachel was pretty fat and i figure this chick is probably 50 pounds heavier than her
[05:36:45] <funkywizard> so De's thing looks snazzy?
[05:37:03] <thewird> looks efficient and easy to scale
[05:37:08] <funkywizard> nice
[05:37:11] <funkywizard> mmmm, scale
[05:37:37] <thewird> now if it scales effecient would have to be tested :)
[05:37:51] <thewird> but easy to scale it is
[05:37:56] <funkywizard> yupp
[05:37:57] <funkywizard> well
[05:38:06] <funkywizard> bittorrent uses fuckwads of bandwidth anyway
[05:38:12] <thewird> lol yah
[05:38:15] <funkywizard> so i think thats more likely to be our issue
[05:38:24] <thewird> true true
[05:38:29] <funkywizard> luckily nothing can really be done about that problem
[05:38:36] <funkywizard> makes the other issues less important
[05:38:42] <thewird> lol
[05:38:47] <thewird> im hoping this uncap is permanent :P
[05:39:02] <funkywizard> well, if your main bottleneck is unfixable, you dont really have to worry about the other issues
[05:39:14] <thewird> thats more logic :P
[05:39:17] <thewird> *poor
[05:39:21] <funkywizard> naww
[05:39:22] <funkywizard> like
[05:39:27] <funkywizard> if you have a X mb/s limit on a server
[05:39:36] <funkywizard> and you'll hit that limit way before you use any of your other resources
[05:39:41] <funkywizard> you dont really have to optimize your other resources
[05:40:06] <thewird> but you could optimize the script to make sure its always using X mb/s
[05:40:11] <thewird> with queuing
[05:40:14] <funkywizard> right
[05:40:28] <funkywizard> i already assumed that was the case
[05:40:34] <thewird> ah o
[05:40:35] <thewird> ok
[05:40:36] <funkywizard> but i guess it doesnt go without saying
[05:41:02] <funkywizard> obviously, you'll want some logic to decide when to start which torrents, how long to seed them, etc
[05:41:30] <thewird> yup
[05:41:40] <thewird> DeHackEd has a timelimit for seeding atm
[05:41:49] <funkywizard> ah
[05:42:07] <funkywizard> i guess we could be greedy fuckers
[05:42:08] <thewird> so we would just have to edit that if we want or adjust it to make it dynamic
[05:42:13] <funkywizard> and just stop seeding as soon as it's done
[05:42:20] <thewird> that wouldn't go to well with the trackers
[05:42:25] <funkywizard> yeah
[05:42:32] <funkywizard> i would preferably have some kind of set limit
[05:42:38] <funkywizard> like 1.5 times ratio before stopping seeding
[05:42:53] <funkywizard> or something like 1.5x or 2x ratio or 24 hours whichever comes first
[05:42:58] <thewird> yah but you cant keep it going forever either
[05:43:05] <funkywizard> right
[05:43:06] <thewird> yah something like that
[05:43:28] <funkywizard> may even want to change the max upload depending on how well it's downloading
[05:43:42] <funkywizard> the overall goal is to get a torrent downloaded with no higher than a 2.0 ratio
[05:43:50] <funkywizard> and no lower than a 1.0 ratio
[05:44:10] <funkywizard> so may want some way to limit upload speeds on torrents that seem to have stalled out
[05:44:38] <funkywizard> torrents that are largely "inactive" probably won't be doing too much i/o wait anyway
[05:44:51] <funkywizard> so if we have them in a kind of a sleep mode, we can just start more torrents, cpu / ram permitting
[05:44:52] <thewird> this is true
[05:45:06] <thewird> but keep in mind we need to clear up HD space for new torrents
[05:45:10] <funkywizard> yeah eventually
[05:45:14] <funkywizard> i mean
[05:45:18] <funkywizard> cpu / ram / hard disk space
[05:45:27] <funkywizard> i expect there to be quite a bit of these, but not infinite
[05:45:40] <funkywizard> so we need to address the issue, but i dont expect it to be very critical as long as we take reasonable steps
[05:46:03] <funkywizard> i mean
[05:46:07] <funkywizard> we could have it prioritize
[05:46:28] <funkywizard> if its running low on disk space it could remove torrents that have completed and have a ratio 1.0 or better, even if the usual goal is 2.0 or better
[05:46:48] <funkywizard> and then if that's not good enough, could remove torrents that never finished despite being in a download status for more than X days
[05:46:56] <funkywizard> starting with the ones that have been sitting around the longest
[05:47:17] <funkywizard> hopefully we'll have enough disk space that we wont have to do that kind of thing very often
[05:47:36] <funkywizard> probably also want to keep track of which torrents were removed for being shitty like that
[05:47:39] <thewird> yah, im hoping the 750's will be $100 by the time we start buying hardware :)
[05:47:43] <funkywizard> so if someone adds them again, they have really low priority
[05:47:54] <funkywizard> 1tb drives are down to under $300
[05:48:02] <funkywizard> if we're lucky they'll come out with even bigger drives by then
[05:48:13] <funkywizard> driving the price down for the smaller ones
[05:48:16] <thewird> :)
[05:48:26] <thewird> 750's right now are the best $ / GB
[05:48:28] <funkywizard> even if they dont, $150 for 750gb is quite a deal
[05:48:36] <funkywizard> and its the fastest drive available for the most part
[05:49:08] <thewird> its the best overall for the job hehe
[05:49:23] <funkywizard> the only thing i really wonder is how many we can / should put into each server
[05:49:25] <thewird> im wondering if we should bother with drives that are supposed to last longer?
[05:49:56] <funkywizard> for the most part we just need to cool them properly and our failure rate will be very low
[05:50:06] <funkywizard> the only important part is making sure drive failures dont really impact our system
[05:50:29] <thewird> ok so forget the enterprise level ones ^_^
[05:50:45] <funkywizard> yeah why bother
[05:50:50] <funkywizard> technically speaking
[05:50:56] <funkywizard> we could torrent something from 2 machines at once
[05:51:15] <thewird> probably not the brightest idea :P
[05:51:17] <funkywizard> if we can find some way to modify the BT client to remove upload limits to the same subnet
[05:51:22] <thewird> oh
[05:51:33] <funkywizard> well, each client will get a certain amount of d/l from all the regular BT swarm
[05:51:41] <funkywizard> as soon as we download a chunk, mirror it over to the other client
[05:51:51] <funkywizard> it's not strictly necessary
[05:51:58] <funkywizard> but would be interesting to see how it worked out
[05:52:13] <thewird> im sure someone here will have a constructive opinion on that in the morning :)
[05:52:36] <thewird> too bad Bram no longer trolls this channel
[05:52:38] <funkywizard> overall it might be asking for more trouble than it's worth
[05:52:53] <funkywizard> troll would be the right word, given some of his blog posts i've seen
[05:54:21] <thewird> hehe
[05:54:33] <thewird> he used to be in here all the time
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[09:15:18] <usrl> If I have a torrent for a file, and the seed that exists on it is very slow, and I have a copy of said file, is there any way to have my client use the existing file so I can seed on the same torrent without having to spend days-weeks downloading from the original seed?
[09:16:29] <uau> you can start seeding it yourself if you have the file
[09:16:38] <uau> but i'm not sure i understand your question correctly
[09:17:21] <usrl> uau: that, I think. And sorry, I've had a long day, and I'm insane enough on a good one.
[09:17:35] <uau> hmm i guess it makes sense if your only goal is to seed
[09:18:50] <uau> in most clients you can resume an existing file by simply saving the torrent over it
[09:19:28] <uau> and if the file is already complete then it should start seeding
[09:19:58] <usrl> uau: yeah. I talked a musician acquaintance of mine into turning an 800MB .rar on his webserver full of his music into a torrent. It's still said .rar, but at least it's not http. I just want to know how if it's possible for my version of the .rar to be used to seed without having to redownload it from his slow connection
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[09:20:22] <usrl> Well, that's the problem, it's not from the torrent file, so that doesn't seem to work. Probably md5sum or something is off.
[09:20:45] <uau> if the file doesn't match the one used to create the .torrent file then it won't work
[09:21:38] <usrl> wait, all I had to do was move the complete file, stop and erase the .!ut, and force recheck. Thanks
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[12:47:16] <init0> moin
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[13:30:42] <iksu> hi guys
[13:32:01] <iksu> brokenstones irc channel where is it???????
[13:32:25] <DreadWingKnight> why should we know or care?
[13:33:28] <iksu> brokenstones is cool
[13:33:36] <iksu> better than torrent
[13:33:41] <__henke__> and google finds it easy
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[13:34:25] <iksu> i've already tried on it
[13:34:33] <iksu> thanks anyway
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[13:36:30] <cyb2063> o0
[13:36:49] <DreadWingKnight> pebkac
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[14:23:35] <The_8472> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080115-filtering-could-come-to-isps-colleges-in-2008.html <- looks like we'll have to come up with a tracker<->client encryption/obfuscation protocol at some point....
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[14:41:26] <ShadowJK> Somethings besides https?
[14:50:18] <The_8472> https might be too heavyweight for trackers
[14:50:59] <The_8472> i mean the opentracker guys even say they'd prefer UDP announces over HTTP due to the connection setup costs and overhead
[14:53:28] <ShadowJK> Considering the ISPs are decoding tracker traffic, it seems like it's an arms race in CPU power really
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[15:03:46] * TheSHAD0W thinks raw tcp would be a better choice than either http or udp
[15:06:50] <kjetilho> I don't think you can design a protocol to be much more efficient than HTTP anyway
[15:07:04] <kjetilho> in terms of roundtrips, that is
[15:07:24] <TheSHAD0W> That's not quite true.  http has a lot of overhead that could be eliminated.
[15:07:32] <TheSHAD0W> Headers passed, etc.
[15:07:54] <kjetilho> a torrent client don't need to send Accept-Language etc :)
[15:08:12] <kjetilho> the server needs to ignore it gracefully, though.
[15:10:29] <The_8472> tcp connection setup alone is 3 packets, 1 packet request (although that's sent with one of the 3 packets), 1 packet respone and another 1-2 packets (depending on TCP stack) connection teardown
[15:10:56] <The_8472> with UDP you can fold that into 3 packets for the first announce and 2 packets for any further announces
[15:11:07] <The_8472> in theory
[15:11:26] <The_8472> and above all... you can make it state-less
[15:12:27] <The_8472> by constructing connection tokens from the IP + server side secret via a hash function
[15:12:42] <The_8472> so you won't have to keep the state... you just have to verify it against you secret
[15:13:08] <The_8472> tcp not being stateless can be a major headache if you get DoSed
[15:13:15] <The_8472> or ISPs interfere with RSTs
[15:15:24] <The_8472> woooo.... Sun is going to buy MySQL AB oO
[15:22:40] * TheSHAD0W sees a fork coming
[15:22:41] <TheSHAD0W> :-P
[15:23:36] <The_8472> tztz
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[20:20:48] <norc> Hello
[20:21:07] <norc> The_8472: It just came to me. Of course PostgreS wouldn't be as fast, but your simple solution is definitely not faster than BerkDB
[20:21:18] <norc> because applying a few algorithms and deferencing pointers is exactly what it does
[20:21:22] <norc> + it supports acid
[20:21:30] <norc> even writing to disk if you want it
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[20:25:01] <norc> besides, on sun machines you dont have to worry about crashes if you store it in the memory without saving it to the hdd
[20:25:04] <norc> ;)
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[21:01:00] <kingfishr> I'm wondering what I would need to do to set up a tracker proxy on my web server
[21:02:17] <kingfishr> Can anyone give me a good link -- I can't seem to find useful information anywhere (most of the info I find is about setting up an actual tracker)
[21:02:39] <The_8472> tracker proxy? what would that be good for?
[21:02:39] <DreadWingKnight> why do you want a tracker proxy?
[21:03:09] <The_8472> and you could just run a normal HTTP proxy like squid and restrict it to announce/scrape-like URLs
[21:04:26] <kingfishr> I can connect to my server from my subnet but not my intended tracker; it would be nice to use my server as a proxy for the tracker.
[21:04:49] <The_8472> well, as i said... just set up a http proxy
[21:06:26] <kingfishr> Sorry, I didn't know that the client communicates w/ the tracker via normal http requests.
[21:06:32] <kingfishr> Thanks for your help
[21:07:31] <The_8472> you could also just use an ssh-tunnel
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[21:08:05] <The_8472> if your client supports SOCKS proxying of tracker communications
[21:08:13] <The_8472> or rather, tunneling
[21:08:29] <print> anyone with what.cd or waffles.fm, lack of oink.me.uk is KILLING me to deaaaath
[21:09:12] <print> i have nothing to trade but i used to hand out oink invites like candy to strangers on IRC when I had 'em.  now seeking good karma
[21:10:13] <print> anyone?
[21:12:02] <The_8472> read the fscking topic
[21:13:15] <print> Did I ask about file distribution, files to download, or where to find files?
[21:13:27] <print> Here:  what kind of breakfast cereal does Bram Cohen like, hmm?
[21:14:05] <print> Can you field that one The_8472
[21:14:24] <DreadWingKnight> invite trollers
[21:14:42] <print> DreadWingKnight: guilty on all counts!
[21:14:59] <print> Better update your topic
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[21:57:58] <DeHackEd> I need a job where I can be on IRC more often. I do so enjoy ripping those kinds of idiots apart.
[21:59:29] <thewird> what do you want as a salary?
[21:59:39] <The_8472> start doing technical support and convince your company that IRC-based support is hip ^^
[22:01:10] * thewird points at DeHackEd
[22:02:14] <DeHackEd> my company? yeah it doesn't quite work that way.
[22:02:24] <DeHackEd> thewird: your ideas intrigue me and I wish to learn more.
[22:03:28] <thewird> DeHackEd: job includes finding hosting clients and handling PR, support for for the hosting platforms, and working on Bitcache
[22:03:42] <thewird> and you can be on IRC all day
[22:03:50] <DeHackEd> all for bitcache?
[22:03:55] <DeHackEd> how do you get income for something like that?
[22:04:05] <thewird> no, bitcache is what you do on your spare time
[22:04:14] <The_8472> mwhahaha
[22:04:23] <thewird> which you will have a lot of
[22:04:44] <thewird> http://www.xfire.com/profile/thewird/ all those dota hours weren't aquired on time i ddn't have free
[22:04:45] <The_8472>  <thewird> no, bitcache is what you do on your spare time <- this line... genius
[22:04:51] <thewird> LMAO
[22:05:07] <thewird> you'll still be paid
[22:05:15] <thewird> during bitcache work
[22:05:26] <DeHackEd> so long as there's nothing more pressing to do
[22:05:31] <thewird> anyway, what are you looking for in a salary ;)
[22:05:48] <DeHackEd> well, given my current job, anything that keeps me above the poverty line. :)
[22:05:59] <DeHackEd> 4 gigs of RAM?
[22:06:06] <thewird> explain your current job situation
[22:06:06] <thewird> LMAO
[22:06:12] <thewird> ill give you 28GB of ram
[22:06:15] <The_8472> wait... you're basically offering a job that consists of idle time and then allocate some semi-fun projects to that idle time? oO
[22:06:29] <thewird> well
[22:06:33] <The_8472> interesting... that reminds me of google inc.
[22:06:34] <thewird> i run a webhosting company
[22:06:51] <thewird> it basically requires me to be at the computer
[22:06:58] <thewird> but not really do anything important most of the time
[22:07:03] <DeHackEd> "support for hosting platforms" I sorta do for other people anyways. for example I have root access to bittornado.com. Thankfully it's a very quiet job.
[22:07:04] <thewird> hence I play Dota
[22:07:21] *** taube is now known as Taube
[22:07:33] <The_8472> dota == ?
[22:07:53] <DeHackEd> as for the 4 gigs of ram thing, I was looking at your profile under your gaming rig. 3326 MB RAM seems a little strange, except maybe for the 4 GB limit minus the famous problems seen by 32 bit systems without PAE
[22:08:24] <thewird> yah i have a windows XP laptop
[22:08:40] <thewird> dota --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPKogFYQ85M
[22:08:42] <DeHackEd> 4 gigs on a laptop? dude, you're loaded.
[22:09:04] <thewird> well i bought it with 2 gigs
[22:09:05] <DeHackEd> yeah, the video card is a "Go" model
[22:09:21] <thewird> then upgraded to 4GB while I was in Florida with funky
[22:09:40] <DeHackEd> and external hard drives continuting to the 600 GB storage, given I don't think laptops have 3.5" bays
[22:09:48] <thewird> i also built my beast while I was down there http://thewirdsdomain.com/work/1.jpg
[22:09:52] <thewird> 2.5" bay
[22:09:58] <thewird> i have 2 externals :P
[22:10:02] <The_8472> oh, warcraft
[22:10:20] <thewird> its a custom map that is basically its own game
[22:10:28] <thewird> theres always a ton of games starting
[22:10:49] <thewird> just login and pick the game
[22:11:15] <thewird> its faster finding a 5vs5 dota game then it is finding a 4vs4 regular bnet game
[22:11:21] <thewird> as in instant
[22:11:26] <DeHackEd> 8 CPU cores, 28 GB RAM, more hard drives than I can count (and I think some are off-screen)...
[22:11:37] <thewird> theres 10 of them
[22:11:59] <DeHackEd> 10.. cores? machines?
[22:12:02] <DeHackEd> oh, hard drives
[22:12:10] <thewird> yah hard drives
[22:12:16] <thewird> thats a 1200 watt power supply
[22:12:24] <thewird> system wouldn't boot with less
[22:12:25] <thewird> haha
[22:12:33] <thewird> those are 103 CFM panaflow fans
[22:12:42] <DeHackEd> any redundent power supplies?
[22:12:45] <thewird> and 2 90 cfm tornado's
[22:12:48] <thewird> nope
[22:12:55] <thewird> just one beast
[22:13:21] <DeHackEd> well, keep spares. In the last ~3 years I blew roughly as many power supples. more if you count friends I've done work for. :/
[22:13:25] <thewird> i have 5 x 103 cfm panaflows
[22:13:26] <thewird> lol
[22:13:38] <thewird> i have a 1000 watt spare at the datacenter
[22:13:45] <thewird> should be enough in case this one blows
[22:13:49] <thewird> its my VPS box
[22:14:02] <DeHackEd> wouldn't be much use for anything other than going Xen happy
[22:14:11] <thewird> :)
[22:14:13] <thewird> you know it
[22:14:14] <thewird> lol
[22:14:30] <thewird> got around 50 Xen VM's on it
[22:14:50] <DeHackEd> so, under Xen, the dom0 kernel is delegated to do all the IO operations for the guests, right? I mean, the xen kernel itself can't do HD I/O...
[22:15:11] <thewird> not with paravirtualation
[22:15:34] <thewird> paravirtualized the hard drives talk directly to the hypervisor which talks directly to the guests
[22:16:21] <thewird> heres a different angle with the ram risers in full view http://thewirdsdomain.com/work/2.jpg
[22:17:05] <thewird> and heres its at the datacenter hooked up to a $900 kvm http://thewirdsdomain.com/work/fdc/IMG_0048.jpg
[22:17:17] <DeHackEd> but fully virtualized, they talk to xen (unknowningly) and xen converts everything into commands for dom0... wouldn't it?
[22:17:47] <thewird> it would still be handled by the xen hypervisor
[22:18:02] <thewird> the dom0 is still a guest
[22:18:16] <thewird> but its a guest that can change the hypervisor settings
[22:18:18] <DeHackEd> yes, but with the right to tell Xen what to do, and with full PCI hardware access by default
[22:18:30] <thewird> right
[22:19:40] <DeHackEd> okay, new topic. about this job. when would it start and where would I have to live?
[22:20:22] <thewird> one question before that, you want to be paid properly with taxes and such?
[22:21:00] <thewird> or could I leave that in your capable hands :)
[22:21:26] <DeHackEd> in the short term I have all kinds of tax cuts accumulated from university tuition writeoffs and such. but not much. probably be easier if you did do all the tax handling like most employers do.
[22:21:59] <thewird> boo... I haven't even registered the company lol
[22:22:13] <DeHackEd> oh.... well, I might change my mind.
[22:22:44] <thewird> i basically but my net profit as my income on the tax forms
[22:22:51] <thewird> *but = put
[22:23:54] <thewird> as for living
[22:24:01] <thewird> Toronto would be good
[22:24:08] <thewird> unless you want to drive
[22:24:21] <DeHackEd> not on a daily basis...
[22:24:52] <thewird> your in kitchener right?
[22:24:56] <DeHackEd> yes
[22:25:44] <thewird> only an hour and a half drive ^_^
[22:26:07] <thewird> hmm, I guess the problem would be where to work
[22:27:16] <DeHackEd> http://xkcd.com/350/  How many virtual machines did you say you had again?
[22:27:50] <thewird> around 50
[22:27:53] <thewird> i can count em
[22:28:37] <thewird> lol
[22:29:39] <thewird> 52 VM's currently active
[22:33:04] <thewird> so what type of wage would you be looking for?
[22:35:18] <DeHackEd> hmm... randomly, 40K?
[22:35:35] <DeHackEd> it's not definitive...
[22:35:49] <thewird> what do you currently make :P
[22:35:56] <DeHackEd> less
[22:36:28] <thewird> well i know that ;)
[22:36:30] <DeHackEd> like 25K maybe
[22:36:46] <DeHackEd> it's a temp job. pays the bills while I live with my father looking for something better.
[22:37:14] <thewird> how many weeks are there in a year?
[22:37:25] <DeHackEd> roungly 52
[22:37:30] <DeHackEd> *roughly
[22:37:30] <thewird> cool beans
[22:38:16] <thewird> your making $12 /hour ?
[22:38:22] <DeHackEd> about that
[22:38:36] <thewird> I was making like $8.60 as an unloader at wal-mart a few years back
[22:38:37] <thewird> lol
[22:38:57] <DeHackEd> there's a funny story involving my getting a raise. the original posted rate was 11.50
[22:39:17] <kjetilho> thewird: is that more or less than what a greeter makes?
[22:39:28] <thewird> more
[22:39:33] <DeHackEd> ouch...
[22:39:35] <thewird> its the second highest paying job
[22:39:41] <thewird> the highest is cachier
[22:39:43] <DeHackEd> at walmart?
[22:39:44] <kjetilho> US wages are insane
[22:39:47] <thewird> *cashier
[22:40:05] <thewird> yes at walmart
[22:40:12] <thewird> not counting managers of course
[22:40:24] <thewird> they never tell you what they make
[22:40:40] <thewird> i know the co-managers make like $10 /hour
[22:40:48] <thewird> not sure about eh full managers
[22:42:17] <thewird> *the
[22:43:12] <thewird> so are you looking for a relaxed job or a higher paying job :)
[22:43:56] <thewird> substancially higher paying i mean
[22:44:32] <DeHackEd> I'm not in any rush to get a huge amount of money fast. I'd love to move out of my parent's house though.
[22:45:39] <thewird> hmm, if I had house i could split for office space
[22:46:14] <thewird> i know my parents wouldn't mind me using the basement but id rather it be not at my house
[22:46:16] <thewird> lol
[22:46:29] <thewird> i dont mind living with my parents
[22:46:31] <thewird> free food
[22:46:34] <thewird> free everything
[22:46:39] <thewird> washed clothers
[22:46:42] <thewird> *clothes
[22:46:47] <DeHackEd> food's not free. my father's away a lot, so I do a lot of shopping.
[22:46:51] <thewird> not much i have to do really
[22:47:10] <thewird> im a leech >_>
[22:47:21] <thewird> also free garage to put my car :D
[22:47:24] <thewird> haha
[22:47:53] <thewird> and i can use my moms car in the winter lol
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[22:48:32] <DeHackEd> I own my own car, pay my own insurance and gas. as for garage space, it's a 2 car garage and we have 3 cars. guess who loses.
[22:48:43] <thewird> :)
[22:48:58] <thewird> well i own my own car too and pay gas and insurance
[22:49:04] <thewird> i guess thats my only expense really
[22:49:09] <thewird> and hella expense....
[22:49:24] <thewird> i've spent 20k since i bought the damn thing and its still not ready how I want it
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[22:51:01] <thewird> phone...
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[23:12:45] <thewird> DeHackEd: when would you be interested in starting?
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[23:41:38] <DeHackEd> thewird: I guess I could try it out next week probably... just have to quit my current job...
[23:41:45] <DeHackEd> sorry for the delay, went shopping and am preparing food right
[23:41:49] <DeHackEd> +now
[23:42:03] <DeHackEd> all the mice at Walmart and The Source suck... :)
[23:42:12] <thewird> haha
[23:43:19] <The_8472> must be a damn bad job if you consider quitting it within one week over an offer made on IRC ^^
[23:43:38] <thewird> lol
[23:43:46] <thewird> ill have to think about it
[23:43:54] <thewird> ive been thinking about getting an employee for a while
[23:54:57] *** lymeca is now known as theroue

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