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[00:48:04] <josch> is there any common piece length?
[00:48:17] <TheSHAD0W> It's defined in each torrent.
[00:48:44] <TheSHAD0W> Usually it's a power of two - but actually doesn't have to be.
[00:49:41] <josch> I know but if I'm going to create new torrent files now I have to decide for a piece size
[00:53:01] <TheSHAD0W> 256K is a good choice.
[00:53:38] <DeHackEd> well, one strategy is to aim for a certain number of pieces. 1500 to 3000 might be a good range, except if it makes your piece size large, maybe larger than 1 MB
[00:54:47] <TheSHAD0W> Well, no...
[00:54:58] <TheSHAD0W> The larger the piece size, the less efficiently the torrent runs.
[00:55:12] <TheSHAD0W> Torrents with 256K run pretty well.
[00:55:17] <TheSHAD0W> 512K run okay.
[00:55:20] <TheSHAD0W> 1024K run a bit slow.
[00:55:25] <TheSHAD0W> 2048K run sluggish.
[00:57:30] <DeHackEd> but if it's an absolutely huge torrent... how efficiently do clients handle large numbers of pieces?
[00:57:39] <TheSHAD0W> Fairly well.
[00:58:11] <TheSHAD0W> josch is only dealing with single files, so he won't be getting "absolutely huge torrents".
[00:58:13] <TheSHAD0W> Probably.
[00:58:37] <josch> right
[00:59:00] <josch> they wont go into much more than a few hundred megabytes maximum
[00:59:17] <josch> the most of the files will be from 20 to 100 MB
[00:59:49] <DeHackEd> that's almost 128K territory..
[01:00:03] <DeHackEd> might be pushing it, but 128 or 256 KB will do just fine
[01:00:20] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.bitlet.org/
[01:02:21] <DeHackEd> another example of writing static URLs in javascript. what is wrong with people?
[01:02:53] <TheSHAD0W> Er?
[01:03:39] <DeHackEd> just viewing the site. there's a "get java applet plugin" link that opens if you're lacking the plugin.
[01:03:53] <TheSHAD0W> Heh.
[01:04:03] <DeHackEd> rather than writing <a href=... target=_blank>, there's javascript that does the exact same thing.
[01:05:20] * DeHackEd will play tetris for a bit. Still need to make S9
[01:05:36] <josch> DeHackEd, I could also critise that there is no xhtml spec for openening something in a new window :-)
[01:05:53] <josch> to be xhtml conform you HAVE to use javascript for such a thing
[01:08:04] <DeHackEd> odd, I thought target="_blank" meant to open in a new window
[01:08:38] <DeHackEd> then again, I'm an avid tab user and would much prefer to be in control of window opening. I don't like many windows open.
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[01:27:28] <josch> this "it's not the markup language to manage your windows" is one of the reasons why xhtml doesn't have the target attribute for the a tag
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[02:54:06] <funkywizard> DeHackEd, did wird ever get back to you about what you were working on?
[02:54:17] <DeHackEd> no
[02:54:22] <funkywizard> aww :(
[02:54:25] <funkywizard> lol
[02:54:43] <funkywizard> how did you end up getting into this bittorrent thing anyway?
[02:55:02] <DeHackEd> anime fix
[02:55:25] <funkywizard> that is a popular way to do it. wird runs a site that pushes initial d primarily
[02:58:11] <DeHackEd> Xen is losing browny points
[02:58:18] <funkywizard> they can blow me
[02:58:21] <funkywizard> although
[02:58:25] <funkywizard> hypervm is a good xen manager that's cheap
[02:58:36] <DeHackEd> It's bitching about my dom0 kernel
[02:58:40] <funkywizard> ah
[02:58:46] <DeHackEd> apparently that's important
[02:58:49] <funkywizard> i just installed whatever hypervm would run on
[02:58:51] <funkywizard> fedora7 i think
[02:59:05] <funkywizard> have a system sitting here running some VMs to test out mogilefs and shit
[02:59:25] <funkywizard> i figure i'd do things the noob way and just have centos vms on a fedora system running xen via hypervm
[03:00:09] <funkywizard> i usually run cpanel, but their new version is terrible. plus i can't license cpanel at home, and i need to test this stuff at home. i dont really feel like doing things manually without a control panel. so i wanted to use lxadmin cause its free. but that only runs on shitty ass centos so i had to do vms to get lxadmin installed
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[03:01:05] <DeHackEd> I can't make the main VM boot. that's a show-stopper, since Xen is the host "OS" and is useless by itself
[03:01:15] <funkywizard> right
[03:01:25] <funkywizard> i always look for turn key solutions
[03:01:36] <funkywizard> so instead of getting a system going that is "good" and then trying to make the vm stuff work on it
[03:01:48] <funkywizard> i just got some random system and installed whatever was easiest to get the vm working on
[03:02:08] <funkywizard> although
[03:02:11] <DeHackEd> someone wants me to play with Xen. he's a dick, but I wanted to see it anyways.
[03:02:13] <funkywizard> my "random system" is quad core 8gb ram :P
[03:02:24] <DeHackEd> I must say, so far I'm not terribly impressed.
[03:02:28] <funkywizard> yeah...
[03:02:31] <funkywizard> the performance or what?
[03:02:34] <DeHackEd> it won't boot
[03:02:39] <funkywizard> well yeah, that'll do it
[03:02:45] <funkywizard> i had some issues with that with hypervm
[03:02:51] <funkywizard> but they had some docs on settings you needed to change
[03:02:54] <funkywizard> so i worked through that
[03:03:05] <DeHackEd> first, there's the catch that it wants the vmlinux file and not arch/i386/boot/bzImage. Then there's the fact that if there's a PAE/non-PAE Mismatch then it'll blow.
[03:03:10] <DeHackEd> so that's a full kernel compile in progress right now
[03:03:35] <funkywizard> aj
[03:03:36] <funkywizard> *ah
[03:03:47] <funkywizard> yeah if you do "yum install virtualization" it will replace your kernel for you
[03:03:56] <funkywizard> maybe not need to compile it, could get away with the stock xen kernel perhaps
[03:04:08] <DeHackEd> uhh, no. I do my own kernels. Along with mplayer, there are some apps no package manager is allowed to touch
[03:05:12] <funkywizard> righto
[03:05:28] <funkywizard> thats why i typically like to seperate my computing activities so i dont have to juggle dependencies like that
[03:05:41] <funkywizard> i have a file server here running linux, i could probably use as a test machine
[03:05:44] <funkywizard> but its a file server god damn it
[03:05:48] <funkywizard> so i dont use it for anything else
[03:06:04] <funkywizard> if it lost my files i would be so fucked so even though its not stressed in any way i dont want to fuck with it
[03:06:14] <funkywizard> my main computer is a windows machine... dont hate
[03:06:18] <funkywizard> its just easier for desktop apps
[03:07:05] <funkywizard> this is why i like the virtualization thing
[03:07:07] <DeHackEd> I'm just booting this in VMWare, so we'll see how it turns out.
[03:07:15] <funkywizard> i can set up a "machine" for say, mogilefs
[03:07:19] <DeHackEd> Xen doesn't touch my real system
[03:07:26] <funkywizard> and not have to worry about fucking up the configuration of apache, for example
[03:07:45] <funkywizard> virtualization inside virtualization lol
[03:08:24] <DeHackEd> well, I don't have spare machines handy, nor does Xen get within 2 rings of my real OS.
[03:08:32] <funkywizard> righto
[03:08:51] <funkywizard> well yeah, i didnt want to waste real machines on these test setups
[03:08:56] <funkywizard> so thats why im glad with xen
[03:09:07] <funkywizard> so i've got like 6 fake machiens on this one
[03:09:16] <funkywizard> dont have to be like "oh is this worth dedicating a whole machine to"
[03:09:28] <funkywizard> mostly you just need ram and thats cheap these days
[03:09:34] <funkywizard> 4gb ram for $100
[03:10:17] <funkywizard> if you have to you can get a celeron for like $30
[03:11:03] <funkywizard> do you have any spare hardware lying around?
[03:11:19] <funkywizard> what parts are you missing to build a nice test system?
[03:11:57] <DeHackEd> everything
[03:12:02] <DeHackEd> case, power supply, motherboard
[03:12:13] <funkywizard> thats what you have or what you need?
[03:12:31] <DeHackEd> I MIGHT have a really old system laying around. I think the old P3 MIGHT be in my closet,  but it wouldn't have a hard drive and I don't have any spare keyboards.
[03:12:40] <funkywizard> alright
[03:12:41] <funkywizard> well at least that's straightforward
[03:12:57] <funkywizard> you know how to build pcs right?
[03:13:19] <DeHackEd> yeah. my desktop was built in ~2000 and has been frankenstein'd with upgrades since.
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[03:13:39] <funkywizard> ill talk to marco (thewird) and see if we can get you a new computer
[03:14:09] <DeHackEd> me personally? no, this desktop with vmware does me just fine
[03:14:24] <funkywizard> for testing stuff
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[03:14:27] <funkywizard> seems its holding you back
[03:14:32] <DeHackEd> no
[03:14:35] <funkywizard> aight
[03:14:41] <funkywizard> don't say i didnt offer ;)
[03:14:46] <DeHackEd> xen is holding me back for being mind-numbingly annoying
[03:15:05] <funkywizard> this is true, but, how much is your time worth?
[03:15:08] <DeHackEd> panic: domain 0 requires an unsupported hypervisor feature
[03:16:31] <funkywizard> i'd like to get bitcache going, and dont mind paying reasonable costs for it. i dont know what you and marco talked about as far as paying you for your help (obviously i dont expect it for free), but, considering the obscene amount of hardware that will be required to launch, not unreasonable for you to have a decent test machine if it saves you time in development
[03:16:42] <funkywizard> probably just cant run xen inside of another virtual environment
[03:17:24] <DeHackEd> 1) I'll take that challenge     2) I'm not doing this Xen crap for the sake of bitcache. I fully trust 'wird' knows how to set it up and will do so appropriately. I'm doing this for another mini-project
[03:17:45] <funkywizard> cool beans
[03:19:29] <funkywizard> i think really, for me, for bitcache, i have a set of system requirements looking for a project ;)
[03:19:34] <funkywizard> i love using fucktons of bandwidth and disk space
[03:19:43] <funkywizard> can't really think of another project that would need nearly as much of either
[03:23:25] <funkywizard> rapidshare uses 200gb bandwidth :D
[03:23:33] <funkywizard> as in gigabits :D
[03:23:55] <DeHackEd> per?
[03:24:00] <funkywizard> second
[03:24:21] <funkywizard> they're adding 1400 terabytes of storage space this month
[03:24:39] <funkywizard> 200gb/s is just obscene
[03:24:40] <funkywizard> and
[03:24:47] <funkywizard> if you think about it, theres way more content on bittorrent
[03:24:47] <DeHackEd> hehe... and how long before they go through that much storage?
[03:24:53] <funkywizard> so the potential there is huge
[03:24:57] <funkywizard> not really sure
[03:25:11] <funkywizard> i think its a huge upgrade for them. probably adds 50% or so
[03:25:26] <funkywizard> ok, they claim to have 4000tb currently
[03:25:49] <funkywizard> their news says 1600tb more coming, not 1400 my bad
[03:26:18] <DeHackEd> it's weird to say "ah, 200 tb isn't that big a difference" when looking at these stats
[03:26:26] <funkywizard> hahah yeah
[03:26:47] <funkywizard> the kind of servers i want to use are going to have maybe 6 x 750gb hard drives. so 200tb is like 50 servers
[03:26:53] <funkywizard> "ah 50 servers, thats not much" lol :D
[03:27:18] <TheSHAD0W> That means 4000 tb = 1000 servers.
[03:27:38] <funkywizard> its entirely possible
[03:27:43] <funkywizard> they might be using bigger servers though
[03:27:49] <funkywizard> hard to say
[03:27:57] <funkywizard> marco has one server with like 14 hard drives in it
[03:28:02] <funkywizard> so technically, you could do that
[03:28:09] <funkywizard> but then you need a bad ass hard drive controller
[03:28:23] <DeHackEd> http://dehacked.2y.net/xen-sucks.png I rest my case
[03:28:26] <funkywizard> and you can only push so much bandwidth on a single server anyway
[03:28:33] <TheSHAD0W> Forbidden
[03:28:33] <TheSHAD0W> You don't have permission to access /xen-sucks.png on this server.
[03:28:36] <funkywizard> You don't have permission to access /xen-sucks.png on this server.
[03:28:40] <funkywizard> beaten
[03:28:52] * DeHackEd slaps VMWare upside the head
[03:29:09] <DeHackEd> ready now
[03:29:13] <TheSHAD0W> Heh.
[03:29:22] <DeHackEd> vmware saved my screen shot with mode 600
[03:29:25] <TheSHAD0W> Uh.
[03:29:33] <funkywizard> im thinking you cant run xen from inside another virtual environment
[03:29:34] <TheSHAD0W> Check the machine's BIOS settings.
[03:29:39] <funkywizard> just banging your head against the wall if you're trying
[03:29:40] <TheSHAD0W> Virtualization may be disabled.
[03:29:47] <TheSHAD0W> Can you access the BIOS?
[03:29:56] <funkywizard> he's running xen inside vmware
[03:29:59] <DeHackEd> if you mean hardware virtualization, there's none
[03:30:06] <funkywizard> yeah, hardware virt helps as well
[03:30:12] <DeHackEd> it's an athlon64 that doesn't have the right features
[03:30:19] <DeHackEd> and even if it did, I doubt vmware has access to it
[03:31:54] <TheSHAD0W> http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2005-11/msg00789.html
[03:32:15] <TheSHAD0W> Mmm, no.
[03:32:49] <DeHackEd> I guess that "paddr 0x400000 -> 0x687000" is a feature vmware doesn't support - some kind of memory assignment linux wants to use
[03:33:49] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.vmwhere.net/gentoo/gentoo-xen-running-in-gentoo-vmware-vm/ - comments
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[03:34:58] <DeHackEd> I see nothing useful
[03:35:09] <DeHackEd> besides, it's bedtime. I have another day of suffering tomorrow.
[03:35:18] <funkywizard> wow
[03:35:23] <funkywizard> thats a great outlook
[03:35:23] <DeHackEd> ?
[03:35:33] <funkywizard> another day of suffering? why suffering?
[03:35:36] <DeHackEd> I just hope the weather improves
[03:35:41] <funkywizard> ah
[03:35:51] <DeHackEd> try driving through fairly thick fog at 80 km/hour over 40 km distance each way
[03:36:05] <funkywizard> doesnt sound fun
[03:36:21] <DeHackEd> I mean you can't see around 100 feet in front of you
[03:36:22] <funkywizard> try driving 300 miles in alaska in the winter without snow tires
[03:36:30] <funkywizard> it wasnt fun
[03:36:35] <funkywizard> it was some scary shit
[03:36:42] <funkywizard> im on a highway, all these SUVs are getting pissed at me
[03:36:45] <DeHackEd> yeah I've had winter troubles. I know what can happen
[03:36:47] <funkywizard> im going like 35mph
[03:36:55] <funkywizard> for 300 miles im going like 35mph :P
[03:37:11] <funkywizard> ah well
[03:37:14] <funkywizard> good luck with the weather
[03:37:30] * DeHackEd checks the reliable weatherman: the window
[03:37:42] <DeHackEd> still foggy
[03:38:27] <TheSHAD0W> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-xen-devel/2007-October/001490.html
[03:39:15] <DeHackEd> g'night
[03:39:20] <funkywizard> night
[03:39:24] <TheSHAD0W> G'night.
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[08:14:01] <josch> okay I now wrote a few lines that created me a bittorrent file - is there any way I can test it for validity?
[08:27:21] <josch> supporting DHT (trackerless) needs no change in the torrent file, right?
[08:42:47] <josch> and another question: wiki.theory.org says that a hash has to be urlencoded if the chars are not 0-9, a-z, A-Z, '.', '-', '_' and '~' but rfc1738 says that the chars not to be urlencoded are A-Z a-z 0-9 _ $ - . + ! * ' ( )
[08:48:53] <josch> DeHackEd's php code also only uses the php functions to decode the infohash so I can assume that RFC1738 which php uses is right and the wiki has to be updated?
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[15:01:11] <josch> hum... six hours later... is anybody there?
[15:01:17] <funkywizard> yeah
[15:01:41] <funkywizard> but im probably not going to be useful in regards to your journey to hand craft .torrent files
[15:01:55] <josch> gnaa okay - putting my former questions aside here is a new one:
[15:03:43] <josch> if I've build my bittorrent file with webseeds there is (with my understanding) no reason or way I should/could announce this file to a tracker - I will only generate the torrent, somebody will download it, connect to a tracker and so will others do but I as I am the creator of the torrent file dont have to announce anything because I'm only seeding via webseed
[15:03:46] <josch> am I right?
[15:04:27] <funkywizard> you need a tracker so the clients will know to connect to each other
[15:04:39] <josch> of course I need to specify one
[15:04:44] <funkywizard> i dont know if a tracker will track arbitrary torrents that it has never known about
[15:04:51] <funkywizard> i guess some trackers will allow that and some wont
[15:05:55] <josch> as I understood you as the downloader of my webseed torrent will announce the infohash of the torrent at the tracker specified in the file - it you're the first one your client will download via webseeds and
[15:06:18] <josch> if there are others with the same infohash at the server those clients will connect and share their pieces
[15:06:29] <funkywizard> i dont know too much about it, so hopefully someone else is awake to help
[15:06:31] <funkywizard> although
[15:06:36] <funkywizard> you could just try it and see how it goes
[15:06:41] <josch> olol
[15:07:19] <josch> okay I hope for DeHackEd or TheSHAD0W to wake up soon ^^
[15:07:38] <funkywizard> hehe
[15:15:15] <Mitchman> some trackers allow tracking of any torrent, known or not
[15:18:35] <josch> what does it mean for a torrent to be "known" ?
[15:18:51] <funkywizard> the tracker could have software that only approved torrents are tracked
[15:18:56] <Mitchman> upload it to the tracker before you start seeding
[15:19:00] <josch> doesn't the first one coming along t´with a new torrent make this torrent "known" ?
[15:19:01] <funkywizard> "known" means it went through whatever process added it to the list
[15:20:22] <josch> I was at 24c3 in berlin and heard the opentracker lecture - it sounded as if only one client needs to say hello to the trackers announce so that the next one will get to know the first
[15:21:01] <funkywizard> lots of popular torrent sites have custom trackers that do whatever they're programmed to do
[15:22:08] <Mitchman> josch: yes, that's how it works
[15:22:19] <josch> and this could include that the torrent first has to be uploaded via some sort of webinterface to get "registered" or so?
[15:22:35] <funkywizard> josch: sure, why not?
[15:23:01] <funkywizard> i'll trust you that stock trackers will work fine if you get random clients announcing random torrents. that sounds reasonable
[15:23:28] <funkywizard> but tracking torrents is a cpu intensive process and i would be surprised if popular torrent sites hadn't required some upload process for their trackers to be willing to track
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[15:24:11] <josch> ah okay - is there any list on what tracker works what way?
[15:24:26] <funkywizard> can't answer that
[15:24:31] <funkywizard> sorry :(
[15:24:50] <josch> np :-)
[15:24:56] <funkywizard> :)
[15:24:57] <Mitchman> josch: http://forum.mininova.org/index.php?showtopic=234974728&pid=143236&st=0&
[15:25:01] <Mitchman> first hit on google
[15:25:04] <Mitchman> not hard
[15:25:46] <funkywizard> what exactly is an anonymous tracker?
[15:25:51] <josch> ah so just searching for anonymous tracker helps
[15:26:21] <Mitchman> funkywizard: one that doesn't require you to register the torrent with it before you start seeding
[15:26:29] <funkywizard> oh ok
[15:53:15] <josch> how do I find out wether popular tracker like thepiratebay.org or denis.stalker.h3q.com accept anonymous torrents or not?
[15:57:02] <Mitchman> did you read the forum post I linked to?
[16:11:54] <josch> Mitchman, I did but if I let my users download torrents I want to specify the big trackers in the announce-list right?
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[22:13:18] *** taube is now known as Taube
[22:43:29] * thewird bumps DeHackEd
[22:43:51] * josch does so too
[22:45:10] * thewird goes to play Dota since DeHackEd isn't here
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