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[00:14:47] <hello__> hi
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[00:18:47] <hello__> does utorrent let you stop seeding a torrent when download is complete ?
[00:18:58] <DeHackEd> the exact moment it finishes? I should expect no.
[00:19:37] <hello__> it can only stops seeding when all downloads have finished
[00:20:43] <hello__> do u know other clients that can do what i want ?
[00:25:50] <The_8472> noone here supports leechers
[00:25:53] <DeHackEd> am I correct regarding what you want?
[00:26:15] <hello__> i want to seed each torrent only while it's downloading
[00:26:40] <DeHackEd> that's an oxymoron. you seed when you're not downloading.
[00:26:49] <DeHackEd> while still running it
[00:26:59] <hello__> i want to upload each torrent only while it's downloading
[00:28:02] <hello__> that's not really leeching
[00:28:13] <The_8472> which is considered leeching unless you have a symmetric connection and manage to upload as much as you have downloaded during downloading
[00:29:49] <hello__> why is it wrong to upload only the active download
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[00:30:00] <hello__> since i'm always uploading at maximum speed
[00:30:22] <hello__> you don't make sense
[00:30:50] <The_8472> because you would download more than you're uploading... if everyone did that bittorrent would not work, the data has to come from somewhere after all
[00:31:07] <The_8472> so for every byte you download but not upload someone else has to upload a byte more than he downloads
[00:31:15] <The_8472> so a share ratio of 1.0 is considered fair
[00:32:15] <hello__> there's nothing wrong with uploading at max speed all the time, no matter which file i upload
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[00:33:02] <The_8472> looks like you either don't understand what we say or you don't want to understand
[00:33:23] <hello__> we both have a good argument
[00:33:25] <The_8472> fact is that it is considered leeching when you quit uploading after downloading unless your connection is symmetric
[00:33:30] <DeHackEd> but simply pulling out of a torrent at the earliest opportunity is considered leeching. besides, being a seed is being polite, and bittorrent depends on people giving a minimum of generosity
[00:33:38] <The_8472> no, i have the global one, you the local/egoistic one. I win
[00:34:36] <hello__> you don't understand that the ratio depends on my speed more than the TIME i keep uploading
[00:34:53] <hello__> you missed this point
[00:35:09] <K`Tetch> no, it depends on the quantity of data
[00:35:16] <K`Tetch> which is a function of both time and speed
[00:35:31] <hello__> i can upload 5 times the size of the file during the time i'm downloading it
[00:35:43] <K`Tetch> unless you're uploading faster than you're downloading, then your total upload at the time you finish downloading will be less, which is not good for the swarm
[00:35:59] <DeHackEd> in the scope of the whole bittorrent universe, a byte must come for a byte. everybody's total ratio is exactly 1:1. bailing out early means something else has to upload more.
[00:36:04] <K`Tetch> then use the ratio system
[00:36:13] <The_8472> hello__, IF you upload 5 times the downloaded data then it's perfectly fine
[00:36:28] <The_8472> even once is enough and considered fair
[00:36:34] <hello__> The_8472 see ? don't call me a leecher then
[00:36:40] <The_8472> but we said that multiple times
[00:36:48] <The_8472> "unless your connection is symmetric"
[00:37:04] <The_8472> "and manage to upload as much as you have downloaded during downloading"
[00:37:05] <hello__> can you answer my question now ?
[00:37:07] <DeHackEd> it's only fair if you download at the same speed (or slower) than you upload. really, how often does that happen?
[00:37:11] <The_8472> i suggest you actually READ what others write
[00:37:19] <hello__> DeHackEd : happens a lot
[00:37:57] <The_8472> Azureus does what you want then, it only seeds after downloading if you haven't reached a 1.0 ratio
[00:38:12] <DeHackEd> that's perfectly fine
[00:38:39] <hello__> The_8472 that's not exactly what i want, hehe
[00:38:49] <hello__> but forget it
[00:38:53] <hello__> i'm tired
[00:39:19] <The_8472> if that's not what you want then you're making inconsistent arguments
[00:39:53] <hello__> if i "happen" to download before i reach 1.0, i still want it to stop
[00:40:09] <hello__> i'm consistent
[00:40:27] <The_8472> that's leeching
[00:40:43] <The_8472> what you want is leeching, point.
[00:40:44] <hello__> i don't mind leeching every now and then, i told u that before
[00:40:50] <The_8472> well, we do
[00:40:56] <hello__> you're a zealot
[00:41:07] <hello__> and speak for yourself
[00:41:43] <hello__> man, these geeks
[00:43:26] <The_8472> man, these people who always think they could use us geeks as advise-dispenser and then ignore everything we say if it doesn't fit into their primitive, egocentric worldview
[00:43:35] <DeHackEd> we wrote the software. we know some of the subtlties. and we do have to look out for the commons.
[00:44:07] <hello__> who is "we" ? which client are you working on
[00:44:44] <DeHackEd> I wrote a tracker and make some minor hacks for myself. I've also hung out here for like 4 years now.
[00:44:52] <The_8472> I'm an Azureus coder
[00:45:17] <hello__> "made"
[00:45:19] <The_8472> and every permanent resident of this channel either is a coder or at least a very experienced power user
[00:45:39] <hello__> what are you The_8472
[00:45:45] <The_8472> already told you
[00:45:48] <DeHackEd> head
[00:45:48] <DeHackEd> hit
[00:45:49] <DeHackEd> keyboard
[00:45:56] <The_8472> |00:37:19| <The_8472> i suggest you actually READ what others write
[00:46:03] <The_8472> poor keyboard
[00:46:11] <hello__> are u a coder ?
[00:46:13] <DeHackEd> (strong bad reference, if you didn't know)
[00:46:15] <DeHackEd> Ow.
[00:46:58] <hello__> The_8472 r u a coder
[00:47:34] <DeHackEd> <The_8472> I'm an Azureus coder
[00:47:50] <The_8472> he must be suffering from SRD... selective reading disorder
[00:47:56] <hello__> it's funny i read it but thought it was DeHackEd who said it
[00:47:58] <hello__> my bad
[00:50:25] <hello__> i'm gonna stick with utorrent and stop uploads manually
[00:51:07] <hello__> i like software that's easy on memory
[00:51:49] <The_8472> then i suggest you run linux in init mode 2
[00:51:55] <The_8472> with a handcrafted kernel ofc
[00:52:21] <DeHackEd> remove support for annoying features like sysctl system call. every kilobyte counts.
[00:52:47] <The_8472> ^^
[00:53:39] <DeHackEd> minix filesystem
[00:55:33] <hello__> windows <3
[00:56:01] <The_8472> and probably microsoft office & internet explorer? and you're complaining about memory ^^
[00:56:15] <hello__> no. openoffice n firefox
[00:56:43] <The_8472> not that much lighter... unless you're using FF3
[00:57:03] <The_8472> which consumes about 100MB of ram...
[00:57:16] <hello__> my computer is 4 years old, it can handle it
[00:58:10] <The_8472> <hello__> i like software that's easy on memory
[00:59:08] <hello__> man, these geeks
[00:59:58] <hello__> is there a science fiction channel ?
[01:00:46] <DeHackEd> there was. it seems deserted
[01:01:19] <hello__> i wanna talk about asimov's foundation
[01:04:48] <hello__> what do u guys do for a living
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[01:59:27] <MxxCon> hey folks, in case you don't know, Loolyan is irseek spybot
[01:59:41] <MxxCon> he log irc w/o asking permission of channel owner
[02:01:13] <MxxCon> in case you want to take apropriate measures..
[02:01:29] * TheSHAD0W shrugs
[02:01:41] <TheSHAD0W> I bet it isn't alone.
[02:01:46] <MxxCon> it's not
[02:02:13] <MxxCon> if you noticed like 30min ago freenode announce that they are blocking nonecrypted tor connections
[02:02:26] <MxxCon> becuase of irseek bots
[02:03:00] <MxxCon> http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/30/will-irseek-have-a-chilling-effect-on-irc-chat/
[02:11:17] <The_8472> we already have a log bot anyway
[02:11:22] <The_8472> echelog
[02:14:49] <MxxCon> and you are aware of it and can control if it log
[02:14:57] <MxxCon> but you have no control over irseek
[02:15:07] <The_8472> echelog logs always
[02:26:26] <ShadowJK> It's a public irc channel on a public network, with no encryption and no authentication. It's not like it matters if it's logged
[02:27:26] <The_8472> some more private (but not locked in any way) channels certainly won't like that though
[02:29:36] <ShadowJK> How does freenode brand tor exit nodes anyway
[02:29:42] <ShadowJK> is there actually a list of exit nodes? :-)
[02:30:46] <ShadowJK> Oh, freenode is banning unencrypted connections coming from tor nodes, because irseek bots use tor and can't do encryption?
[02:31:09] <MxxCon> yup
[02:31:26] <The_8472> uhm... how would using encryption or not make a difference?
[02:31:32] <The_8472> freenode sees what they send anyway
[02:32:01] <ShadowJK> I am guessing that the bot can't do encrypted connections, so if you want to ban the bot you ban unencrypted connections?
[02:32:16] <MxxCon> well afaikt, regular users connect using encrypted protocol and are authenticated
[02:32:26] <MxxCon> irseek bots are neither
[02:32:51] <The_8472> not every tor-user encrypts i'd say...
[02:32:58] <The_8472> not all of them are smart enough
[02:33:18] <MxxCon> the whole point of tor is encryption and not a proxy to avoid ban
[02:33:36] <The_8472> it's anonymity
[02:33:41] <The_8472> that's the point of tor
[02:34:04] <MxxCon> with encryption
[02:34:14] <ShadowJK> um
[02:34:35] <ShadowJK> Once you exit tor though, it's whatever data you put in it in the first place, which will be unencrypted in most cases
[02:34:48] <MxxCon> if irseek want to log, they should join it in the open..call your bots irseek_logger
[02:34:49] <ShadowJK> this is the thing through which all those embassy usernames and passwords were revealed
[02:35:12] <ShadowJK> When that guy put a packet sniffer at his tor exit node
[02:35:38] <The_8472> yep
[02:36:16] <The_8472> i'm not saying it's a good idea to do unencrypted stuff over tor... i'm just saying that using tor does not imply encrypted connections
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[03:28:24] <TheSHAD0W> Damn.
[03:28:32] <TheSHAD0W> Patrick Farley's website dropped off the net.
[03:28:40] <TheSHAD0W> That sucks.
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[04:00:35] <TheSHAD0W> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7120632.stm
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[05:14:48] <Abu-Aadam> Can somebody tell me a way to block peers I don't want
[05:14:54] <Abu-Aadam> and Keep peers I do want
[05:15:26] <K`Tetch> ipfilter?
[05:17:57] <Abu-Aadam> K`Tetch: how's that work
[05:18:18] <Abu-Aadam> K`Tetch: i'm using utorrent and I have a list of peers and I can see which ones I want
[05:19:11] <K`Tetch> you add ips to an ipfilter.dat - the info about it is on the utorrent forum
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[05:53:13] <Abu-Aadam> does anybody know if there is a certain range for Australian Ip addresses
[05:56:04] <kjetilho> yes: no.
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[09:18:44] <FatalError> Does anyone here use xbnbt? I'm trying to set it up, but the xbnbt wiki seems pretty empty/broken and I can't figure out the default admin user/pass.. anyone know what it is? I tried "admin" and "password" (defaults for bnbt) but no luck.
[09:21:09] <FatalError> erg, found the answer :) xbnbt has no default users
[09:23:39] <FatalError> blah, google returns bnbt results when you search xbnbt making it nearly impossible to find xbnbt info
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[10:04:14] <FatalError> what's wrong with the tracker URL http://127.0.0.1/ ?
[10:10:41] <__henke__> can only be reach from the tracker host
[10:13:25] <FatalError> er, nm I missed the / on the end when I made the .torrent
[10:13:31] <FatalError> yes, I'm just testing
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[17:17:57] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.irenepereyra.com/blogger/smartthings.pdf
[17:42:59] <TheSHAD0W> http://bash.org/?826340
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[20:21:04] <Uranellus> hello, 1. I'm looking for a way (some software) to create my own tracker, 2. I'm looking for a way to initially let ppl download stuff seeded by my server but then when there are enough seeders my server stopps seeding (to save bandwidth for other torrents)
[20:22:27] <Uranellus> to make 2 more clearly: I'm asking since I'm working at my school on a customized linux distribution, now our servers should start off with seeding it for the students downloading it .. but as these start to seed, the server should start to save some bandwitdth by stop or limited seeding
[20:25:21] <K`Tetch> you want initial tracker-assisted seeding?
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[20:29:03] <ShadowJK> "tracker-assisted seeding" sounds misleading :-)
[20:29:10] <ShadowJK> You don't need any special assistance from the tracker
[20:29:14] <Uranellus> K`Tetch: not neccasary tracker-assisted ..
[20:29:27] <ShadowJK> Just a client that lets you specify rules for when to seed
[20:29:48] * ShadowJK only really knows of azureus, and that's a hog and the queue rules in it aren't exactly simple
[20:30:19] <Uranellus> ShadowJK: ok, I'll look for something, though I'd like to have it for linux and running on console
[20:30:28] <ShadowJK> Tracker software comes with bittornado and bittorrent, for example
[20:30:55] <Uranellus> ShadowJK: nothing standalone in mind? :|
[20:31:08] <ShadowJK> The trackers are standalone
[20:31:14] <ShadowJK> bttrack.py
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[20:31:39] <ShadowJK> the bittornado/torrent software actually contains several useful programs
[20:33:07] <Uranellus> ShadowJK: ok thanks, I'll have a try :)
[20:33:27] <ShadowJK> looking up in the irc window I see someone mentioning xbnbt too
[20:37:01] <ShadowJK> tracker only really needs to support the 'scrape' feature, which gives clients info about the number of peers and seeders... then you need a client that can use that information for making these decisions on seeding that you want...
[20:37:29] * ShadowJK isn't sure if there are clients that can do all what you want though
[20:40:45] <Uranellus> from wikipedia: Super seeding is a feature of some BitTorrent clients that attempts to minimize the amount of data which must be uploaded by the original seed until the first completion of a downloading peer. The feature was conceived by John Hoffman and first implemented in the BitTornado client in mid 2003. This feature should only be used when there is no more than one seed. It is called Initia
[20:42:10] <ShadowJK> you were cut off at "it is calle Initia". Anyway, the key point is "until the first completion of a downloading peer". It's only useful if you have lots of peers and one slow seed
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[21:01:49] <The_8472> and it wouldn't be necessary if all peers were well-behaved..
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[21:02:17] <K`Tetch> and all users
[21:02:25] <n215> whats default udp tracker ports
[21:02:30] <K`Tetch> selective file downloading is part of that problem
[21:03:02] <The_8472> true... people who use use selective downloading during the startup phase or the end of the torrent lifecycle should be shot
[21:03:09] <The_8472> n215, none
[21:03:23] <n215> ktorrent has the option
[21:06:26] <n215> i cant download torrent
[21:06:29] <n215> it says stalled
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[23:41:02] <FatalError> anyone use XBNBT? if after an upload it says Successful \n\n Failed does that mean it worked or no? :S

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